Speaker 1: 0:00

So you're thinking about running but not sure how to take the first step. My name is Brian Patterson and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's Rompod. Welcome back to brian's rom pod, and it's me, your host, brian.

Speaker 1: 0:37

Um, now, in the second part of my chat with travis island, we now get into the weeds of his running career. We look at how he came about with the idea of creating a virtual running website stroke app and what his plans are for the future. Well, enough of me talking. Let's hear from travis getting back to running, a positive side of your life. So I'm really interested about the uh the app, the run the world app. Only because that um, uh, I did an app about for someone who had their own running community here. Um, it's called the bearcat running club. Um, very basic app. Um, only because I was kind of into sort of uh, I was kind of self-taught ios developer sort of thing. I don't do it anymore in any way and you, you won't find it in the App Store anyway, but it was. So how did that come about? I mean, what was the idea behind it?

Speaker 2: 1:34

Well, it's a perfect. It flows on from my gambling addiction.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Oh really Okay, brilliant.

Speaker 2: 1:39

Yeah. So when I went to think about robbing that till, I went to the toilet and this is a story I love telling because I'm so lucky that it happened I walked into the toilet and Robert DeCostello I don't know if you know Robert DeCostello over there he's a marathon runner, isn't he Olympic marathon runner? Yeah, so he held our Australian record for 35 years of the 208 marathon, ran back in the 80s to do Olympics, and he was in the toilet. And as I went into the toilet thinking about robbing this till, no money left, I simply looked at him and said, hey, I'm going to run this marathon next year. And I don't know why. I said I'd never run further than a half marathon. I said that to him, went outside, got my mate to film that. So I was on film. I said I'm going to run this marathon next year.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Went home, told my wife at the time what my gambling problem was the next day, thought I've committed to running a marathon. I need something to fill my gambling void. So I'm going to run around Australia. That's what I said to my wife. That's a perfect way to train and get ready for this marathon, which is a year away. So I'm at the marathon. That day I had a whole year to train and I said I'm going to run around Australia, get ready and do this marathon. The running around Australia was me just booking a bit of rubbish because I, yeah, physically I wasn't fit enough, I didn't do this and obviously I had no money. So then I thought how can I keep myself motivated for 12 months? And if you look at any marathon program, they're 20 weeks, 12 weeks, 16 weeks, maybe three months yes, that's right.

Speaker 2: 3:15

Yeah. So to shorten that whole story, I combined the two. I said I'm going to train for the marathon and run around Australia, but I'm going to do it. So I then spend. Instead of gambling, I'd spend my time on the computer and I created a 14,080 kilometer route around Australia. That's what I spent my time doing and I thought I'm going to do this myself. But I'm going to do it virtually.

Speaker 2: 3:38

And this is back in 2013, when virtual running wasn't a thing. So I didn't have any developer knowledge. I didn't have anything other than I had a database of runners through fun runs. So when the time came for me to so it took me months and months to build it, and it was maybe october that I'd finished it. When I say built it, I brought a map. I had an excel spreadsheet, yeah, and I put it out there and I say I said to people who wants to join me? I'm virtually running around Australia and I thought I would get 20 or 30 people my mum and dad I thought I might get a few mates, and this day it still amazed me I had 759 people join me on running around Australia with an Excel spreadsheet and quite a crappy texting that I designed. Right, that was it. So then, on January, the 1st 2014, 750 of us all started to run around Australia, and that was basically a hobby. It was mine, it wasn't my business.

Speaker 1: 4:41

So would they send you right? I did I don't know, five kilometers on so-and-so, and then can you log me, or that kind of thing really.

Speaker 2: 4:51

That's exactly how it started. Yep, so my first week of results, because I did it weekly. It took me 19 hours to put all the data and that was a mind-numbing process. And that's when I thought I can't do this and I built a basic website then and they can put it themselves and that's where it started. So it was a website. It was a hobby.

Speaker 2: 5:15

I still had my company at the time. I was still the recovering gambler that had to make money through work and what I did do was charge people $50. So it was like an entry fee. So, all right, they they paid to do this and I gave them a singlet and we're all part of this um journey. It was like a fun run, I guess, and we're all starting on.

Speaker 2: 5:37

On january, the first, we all started at the same time and it was a matter of who could go the quickest. Yeah, and that's where it started. That's how run the world. It was run down under. Back then I only had one map. It was australia. Yeah, called run down under and that's how it. That's how it started from from walking out of that toilet saying I was going to run a marathon through to the vision of me wanting to run around australia, realizing that wasn't possible. Then creating a hobby and something. It was for me, it wasn't for anyone else, it was me to still avoid and made me realize that running was needed to be a part of my life. Keep me alive, yes, yeah, and off gambling and other addictions that popped in.

Speaker 1: 6:19

Yeah, yeah, what was? Do you think that people, you, you know, like you said, you kind of sold this vision about doing this kind of virtual run? Why was it that you managed to be so successful in sort of, like you know, getting people to part with their money and then getting them to participate?

Speaker 2: 6:43

Yeah, I often ask myself the question, brian. I think it's just the novelty of running around australia so, and, and not having to worry about the logistics or anything like that. I think it was just a new concept of oh yeah, hey, I'd like to take on that challenge. And this is also before. I mean nowadays 100 events, 200 miles they're a dime a dozen now, but back then marathons were in my head. I could be wrong, but in my head marathons were the. That was a long-distance runner if you ran a marathon. So then, to put something out there, that was 14,000 kilometers.

Speaker 2: 7:18

I think it was just a challenge that people thought I'm going to have a crack at this. I'm going to have a crack at this. I'm going to try to run around Australia. I did no advertising, so I was word of mouth. I can only imagine that people said this is a pretty cool concept, I want to try it. It was $50, so it wasn't like they were parting with their life savings. I did get a singlet like an event. I did make it quite professional in terms of emails and newsletters.

Speaker 2: 7:44

When you got to a certain town, you got a stubby holder, a stubby cook to celebrate. So it was more than just a hobby for them and I think it was just the novelty that's all I can think of the novel aspect of something that wasn't out there.

Speaker 1: 7:58

Do you think I mean just thinking about it now is that obviously you had. You know, if you kind of think about your life prior to that, the gambling and that took a lot of your space and basically, in a way, this is another form of addiction. It's like it's taken up this space, but obviously it's legal and you're not harming anyone. Um, and you're, if anything, you're, you're making, you're, you're being, you're having a positive impact for other people exactly right, it definitely is that.

Speaker 2: 8:35

It probably is the word because it consumes me entirely. Yeah, and and a perfect another story I had was I. I started, started to play games on your phone like Candy Crush. I don't know if you've heard of Candy Crush.

Speaker 1: 8:48

Yeah, I know, yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:50

But I started to fill my time in playing Candy Crush and I got addicted to that as a game and I had to get myself off that. When I say addicted, maybe a month, but I'm playing, so I would spend every moment of not working. I'm playing, so I would spend every moment of not working. Pay off my debts was on this platform of run down under the world and it consumed me. Instead of thinking about gambling at night, I'd think about the towns I was going to, the map I was going to and, yeah, it did become an addiction in a way, and even now I've been going for 11 years. It still is. I don't particularly like it, but it makes sense to use that. I'm addicted to it. I'm trying to get better every year and I check the app every day as a personal use. Yeah, that's healthy. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1: 9:40

So that's basically, that's kind of part of your personality. It's about part of who Travis is. Well, I mean not wanting to use a better word it's like you know, it's something that obviously you do have a kind of an addictive personality to certain things. Am I right in that?

Speaker 2: 9:59

100% yeah, and it's also combine that with the competitive nature as well and find those two. I think it's a perfect. Even now I'm 52 years old. If I go and have a beer with some friends and have a social beer, I'm fine. But if I decide to go out and have a night out or a party which I don't do very often, maybe once or twice a year I don't particularly have stop button, so I will drink yeah, until I'm drunk, yeah, and that there's no no going home, and I want to be the last one out. I don't want to be the guy that went home early and missed something at the end. I want to be the guy that was there at the end. So that, and like I said, maybe twice, not a problem at all. But that's sort of my personality. I have that definite fiction and competitive element behind the I put my mind to something.

Speaker 1: 10:52

Um, yeah, it takes a bit to stop me from so, um, so, from you know, you've got this massive spreadsheet and then you said you broke it down into into the website. From doing that, so going into an app, and I've uh, and I've seen that app and uh, uh, logged into it as well and it's um, it's great. So how did um, how did that? How? What was the journey to get to that stage?

Speaker 2: 11:24

yeah, I guess the long story is that I had a gentleman about to finish rundananda yeah, in under two years this is a guy that ran seven or eight thousand kilometers, yeah, and for me that was mind-blowing. I was not prepared. So I then had to build and I was thinking to myself I don't want to try to stop and not run anymore. So I built a second map and with that I then built a website that had a web-based app attached to it. That was very basic. It wasn't a native app, as they call it, it was just a web-based app, and the two of those were running quite successfully for a few years.

Speaker 2: 12:04

And I then built more maps and my provider at the time failed to update the programs that the website was on, and I don't know the terminology. So one thing it's important to note is that I'm not a web developer, I'm the ideas guy that gives it to web developers, and they forgot to update whatever. And then it got to the point where I was on an end of life program and I had to rebuild the app and the website scratch right through necessity. And that's when I decided to take it to the next level, so that the web-based app simply four pages leaderboardboard, map profile, and that was it. So I then spent a year and a half with developers and built an 18-map, which is what you see today. Right, that's how that happened. So I was forced into it, and when I was forced into it, I thought I'm going to take the advantage here to build an app that is world-class.

Speaker 1: 13:03

Oh right.

Speaker 2: 13:05

It's only new. It's only six months old, the new one. So I've still got a little bit of work to do on it, yeah, but it is a thousand times better than what it was. It's got, um. It's got hundreds and hundreds of functionality items in there, from leaderboard, finding friends and cats yeah, everything it was a as a group yeah, still got the main functionality of personal aspects, of seeing where you're on the map, seeing where you're on the leaderboard, having your estimated finishing and everything in between. Come a long way.

Speaker 1: 13:37

It's a quite significant cost up front in terms of getting the developers, you know, to getting them on board, and that kind of thing. Yeah, so I spread it. It took me a board and that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Yeah, so I spread it. It took me a year and a half to do and it was hundreds of thousands. I remember when I had to transfer the information over, my new developers looked at it all in the proposal stages. They said, trav, there's 10 billion pieces of data here we need to transfer across. If you think about it, since I started I've got about 50,000 members on there. They're not all active. They're not active anymore. So I've only got 7,000 of those that are active. So people come and go.

Speaker 1: 14:19

That's a good ratio, though, isn't it? It's like a fifth, isn't?

Speaker 2: 14:23

it nearly. Yeah, that's pretty good like a fifth, isn't it nearly? Yeah, yeah, that's pretty good. So all of those had they're people that came on free trials. Yeah, one thing I am proud of is that my membership database very engaging, not just at later, but that's how it all came about. That's the cost. It is expensive. Yeah, amazing, and I don't have that developer brain. That's how it all came about. That's the cost.

Speaker 2: 14:45

It is expensive, it's yeah amazing and I don't have that developer brain, so I talk in a runner's language. Give them the information yeah thinking how hard can it be to make a leaderboard for 7,000 people built in through my age group?

Speaker 1: 14:59

and then they tell me this coding is going to take months and yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it all adds up, yeah so, believe me, you've suddenly done it on their own is it's pretty hard? So yeah, but what I was thinking is um in terms of the app itself. So basically, I know in in developer language there's you've linked with an api with strava. Developer language there's you've linked with an api with strava. That's right. So when you can, whatever um runs you've logged with strava, then it will pick them up. I know I did them, you know this this week as well, but can you um, I haven't spent a lot of time on the app can you do a run itself through the app and log the run through the?

Speaker 2: 15:47

app. Sorry, you can, but the app is not a GPS tracking device.

Speaker 1: 15:52

Right.

Speaker 2: 15:54

So the only two options I have are Strava and manual entry.

Speaker 1: 15:59

Right.

Speaker 2: 16:00

If someone doesn't want Strava, which is their call, then they then have to go and do a manual entry, which involves opening the app, selecting the date, the time, putting in your distance and then attaching evidence so they might take a picture of their garment, of their toe, their watch, whatever they might put their parker result in there. They might have done a half marathon down in Dover, so they'll grab the results of that and attach the evidence proof. So Strava, obviously I have the proof through Strava, so I don't need them to do anything. That's automated and then manual. They just do it that way. So, to be honest, it takes 10 seconds. You get on there, you look through date time in 10Ks and then attach it Very quick. I'm trying to encourage everyone to use Strava. Strava is a free platform so there's no extra cost. I do understand that.

Speaker 1: 16:51

Strava but there is a manual, yes, and also I know, if you do and I know I've used other transfer apps If you do from one app, I use runkeeper, uh, sometimes only because that's runkeeper is better for intervals, um, whereas I don't. I can't get my head around why strava doesn't do intervals. It really it frustrates me. But anyway, I mean, I know, you know, in terms of community, it's fantastic, but runkeeper, you can set your own intervals. It's um, you know, if you get the paid version, you know you can have your own time for your own plan and whatever, which is great, um, but I know there are some apps that, if you do, you, it will transfer the data from runkeeper to strava, and then you, obviously it will automatically go to, yeah, which is, which is great.

Speaker 2: 17:46

So those people that don't have. So I'm not a massive Strava user. I like it for various reasons, but I'm not anywhere near a Strava user. I almost have it as just a middleman. So I like Armin for my program and my interval settings and everything, and then when I finish and press stop, it just automatically goes to Strava and then automatically settings and everything. And then when I finish and press stop, it just automatically goes to Strava and then automatically goes to run. So in my head I'm pressing stop on a Garmin and it's then going to run the work. That's the free version of Strava. I don't need the technology-paid version. Personally, I think the features are great. Yeah, and it's just a middleman. For me, strava it's a great platform to use. It covers everything I don't cover. So I basically am just looking at distance. So I like going to Strava to have a look at location. I did and segment I did and friends did. I like that.

Speaker 1: 18:44

Yeah, so what's the roadmap? Friends did and I like that. Yeah, so what's the roadmap if you can give anything away, but for your app in the future?

Speaker 2: 18:59

So I made a commitment last year to actually stop building maps, because I've got enough distance there now for the average person to have a lifetime's worth of running. So I've got nine maps. There's eight advertised on the website, but there's a secret one that unlocks Australia. There's a second map of Australia. So I've got nine maps and I've got 127,500 worth of distance. So in my head I needed to have an endpoint.

Speaker 2: 19:24

The last year I built my last two maps. I built run the longest walk and run East Asia and I then made the decision to stop there. That's it. So there's an end point in terms of maps and if you do your maths on 127,500 kilometers, you just simply divide that by two, it's 55 years worth of running some on 2,000 K a year. So it's 55 years worth of running someone at 2000k a year. So it's it's a lot of distance, but the average person maybe not not going to get it done in a lifetime.

Speaker 2: 19:54

Yeah, so I've got enough there. I've got enough there, but there's an end point and I guess now the the roadmap is to enhance the app and my next port of call is to make it a worldwide app. So I'm very prominent here in australia yeah, being based in australia. Um, I've got goals and aspirations to take it. Other countries when I look at the uk, for example, have a look. Parkrun, yeah, um, unity and parkrun scene and, amazed by numbers, I only just saw before I come in this podcast that 1,555 people had Bushy Parkrun.

Speaker 1: 20:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:32

And that's seven times more members than I have in a whole year at one parkrun. So I've got goals and aspirations to become more prominent in other countries like the UK, the USA. I see a massive market there.

Speaker 1: 20:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:50

So that'll be my focus. I've got a bit more work to do on the app and I've also got, just between you and I and everyone else, listening some ideas around, maybe creating a similar app for cyclists.

Speaker 1: 21:03

Oh, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yeah, a ride the world. Yeah, the only difficult there is, brian, that I'm not a cyclist. Oh right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I ride the world. Yeah, the only difficult there is, brian, that I'm not a cyclist. I don't have the passion. Yeah, I'm a passionate runner and I find it easy to get get up in the morning and run and talk about running and do everything and running. I particularly like riding a bike myself, so I'd have to get in get a cyclist on board, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but that's also in the podcast.

Speaker 1: 21:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:27

Me to consider. I'm not 100% on that, but something to consider.

Speaker 1: 21:30

Moving on from the app, I know we've already been talking for about 40 minutes or whatever. That's brilliant. This pretty much is a podcast. I say for beginners what advice would you give to someone who is looking to start their running journey?

Speaker 2: 21:48

the best bit of advice I can give personally is find something that you enjoy doing. So running is so diverse. So when people think running as a beginner, they think I've got to go out and run on the road and do 10 kilometers. Find something that you love doing. It might be that you go and do a running club. It might be that you find a bike and you become a trail runner. It might be that you love the treadmill because you like going to the gym and the air can heat it or whatever. It might be that you love park run. It might be that you've all of a sudden got this appetite straight away to do a 100-kilometer stage race. It might be that you love music. It might be that you don't love music. It might be that you love to run because you get a chat to your friend. You take the dog out, whatever of those options you find that you enjoy, stick to it and there's nothing. Nothing. No one's ever going to succeed in running if they get out and don't enjoy.

Speaker 2: 22:47

I'm sure you've heard at the same time people say, oh, I don't know how you run so much, I hate running. And I say, oh, what do you hate about it. You know I get out, I run along the road I've got to stop and have you tried going for a hike in the Springbrook National Park and running where you can in so many aspects? So that's my bit of advice is, as a beginner runner, if you don't like what you're doing, try something else and run clubber treadmill. This is like I think I mentioned about 10 different. Find that and embrace it and learn to love it, because I love running. And when someone says they don't love running, I'd find it then why do you go?

Speaker 1: 23:29

into the uh, I mean, obviously you probably talk to underrunners who are sort of intermediate or beginner level. Do you talk to them about the kind of the technical aspects? So let's say you know I've started running and you know I've been out the door two or three times a week. I do my version, you know. Know like three to five k or whatever. How do you get them to sort of go to that next level you know to either are doing interval running or tempo running or you know far like running. You know all these are different terminologies which can sort of be very confusing.

Speaker 2: 24:09

You know how can they help my running, that kind of thing yeah, I, the first thing I do is, because I'm not a running coach. Yeah, is I point them in direction of Very confusing? You know how can they help my running that kind of thing? Yeah, the first thing I do is, because I'm not a running coach, is I point them in the direction of running. So if they come to me saying how can I take it the next step and go to a half marathon, I know the basics about incorporating fine long run, slow runs and interval session, but I say find yourself a coach. That's where I leave it.

Speaker 2: 24:35

Honestly, I don't want to get involved in any more than that. I know what I'm doing for myself, but everyone's different. If I sent someone out to go and run intervals, never run them before. They don't have the right shoes, they're on a track grass, they don't know what they're doing. And when I say a running coach, it could be something online there might be a running program on that from a certified coach. You don't always need a weekly, monthly coach. I do encourage that. You know you get the best value and best advice and the best care. But that's right. That's right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:10

And while you're there, download the run the world app. Correct, yeah, yeah and while you're there, download the run the world app correct yeah, so you can see, you can do all your uh, see where your intervals lead you in all different parts of the world yeah, because it's interesting because, like I said earlier, my app only gathers distance.

Speaker 2: 25:30

So, yeah, you and I went into an interval session together and I might have run minutes slower than you each kilometre. You might come out of that interval session with 8Ks and I might have come out with 7Ks. Your kilometre pace might have been 5.10 and mine might have been 6.05. All I care about. You did 8K and I did 7K, so we almost did exactly the same thing, even though you were a minute per kilometre faster. Your heart rate might have been a lot lower. I might have been throwing up in the bush, whatever. We did the same, almost the same distance. That's all I care about.

Speaker 1: 26:02

And I think that's the beauty of it is that I know sometimes when people get wrapped up in all the statistics steps per minute and people talk about this 180 rule and what's my stride length and all kind of thing, but yours is very it's kind of one dimensional, it's just one. You know, you're just talking the distance, you know, and you're going from I don't know the blue mountains to sydney or something like that. I don't know the Blue Mountains to Sydney or something like that. I don't know. I mean, you know, I'm probably people like that simplicity, do you agree?

Speaker 2: 26:44

You would be surprised if I told you who makes up the leaderboard of my app. Right, they're generally retired men and women have time to go out, and so I'm. I'm called run the world, but I have a lot of bookers. So a retired lady who's still fit and healthy at the age of 65 or 70 can go out and do 70 or 80 kilometers a week um walking, and they might go out and do a walk before breakfast, then then take the dog later on and then they might walk with their grandkids in the afternoon and next thing you know they've done 15 kilometres that day. I've got some elite runners in there who do some distances that represent Australia and national like from Denmark who's the national champion, but predominantly my leaderboard is the slow end of pace-wise. But they do some problems because they either have time or they're….

Speaker 1: 27:37

That's right yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:39

Yeah, yeah, you're very surprised. I know, because I see them all.

Speaker 1: 27:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:43

I see others that are just names, but I know who they are and I know the effort.

Speaker 1: 27:47

Yeah, and it's so important, I think, from so many levels. Mental health, I don't know. There it's so important, I think, from so many levels. Mental health, I don't know there's a. I mean, my dad has dementia, so when he's at home, but the thing is, is that it's so you know the benefits of being outdoors and moving. I think that's just the main thing you know, and I think that's what your crusade is about as well.

Speaker 2: 28:15

Correct. My parents are the best examples. My parents are in their mid 70s and dad is a gardener still, so he's active and he's always in our garden and he mows a lot, he goes to bunnings, he builds things. He's still he's very active. My mom is a sewer, so she's in the room a lot. Right, my mom realized that she gets out and walks between 3 and 5k maybe 3 or 4, yeah, but I mean it's my app and I encourage her. I have no doubt that it's making her a healthier person. Keep up with dad, yeah, and it's also good for dad to see that she's getting out. And, yeah, I love that. Yeah, averages people to get out'm a runner, so I use it for running and races, but to see my mum and other people like that using it for walking and for health and then I know there's a plethora of people that use it for mental health, yeah, yeah, they're part of a community, they're part of the seed, their motivation, social media, there's integration, there's engagement I have no doubt that it's a mental health yeah, um.

Speaker 1: 29:17

Well, it's nearly coming to the end of the end of the podcast. I know you, we, you did say that you did this felix app, which you're not doing anymore. Is that right? Um, what was, what was the thinking behind that?

Speaker 2: 29:32

thinking behind was. That was I had three young kids that were in all right and uh, on their computers a lot and I thought I could create an app similar, because I'd seen the benefit of run the world for adults, thought I could create something similar for kids. Um, very short story is I just couldn't get the funding. But I was building an app at the same time I I just didn't have the money. I relied on government grants and sponsorship. I just didn't get it because I was in the development stages.

Speaker 2: 30:01

I don't know over there, but grants are very hard to get if you don't have a product already. So, because I didn't have a product, I just couldn't get the grants to fund it and I couldn't get the sponsorship. I couldn't get the grants to fund it, right, and I couldn't get the sponsorship. I couldn't get anyone to believe in it, yeah, and as such, I ran out of money and also that was maybe a three-year project I dabbled in and I got over halfway there with building it and everything. And then also at that time my kids became older and my passion waned. I'm a big believer in having a passion. I probably could have kept going with just a business in mind thinking I could create a business out of it, but I lost the passion before the time. Do you think you might?

Speaker 1: 30:45

revisit it Because I know it's something I don't know. I can't help feeling that it's kind of a topic which will definitely come back.

Speaker 2: 30:54

I'm confident I will revisit it. Yeah, I will. I don't know in what capacity. I don't know if I'm going to give all of that to someone else, yeah. Or if I, because there's going to be a time in a few years' time, if I don't do the ride, for example, I'm probably a year and a half away from having run the world established and I'll be looking for something else. It's there. I've still got the copyrights. I've still got the characters. It's very Australian-based, so the characters are very Australian. I have no doubt that would be quite successful in other countries to be part of an app like it is. It's still there.

Speaker 1: 31:31

All right, just before we go, I did say I'd have a few quick fire questions or a few. So um, what is your favorite race?

Speaker 2: 31:41

I've become a backyard ultra, right, so that's my new favorite race is doing a backyard ultra. Done three. Now I'm doing another one this year, right.

Speaker 1: 31:52

So what's that?

Speaker 2: 31:52

involve. So it's a 6.7-kilometer loop, or 4.1 miles I think, every hour on the hour, right. So the race starts with, say, 200 people in the race and you all go and you have to be back in the hour. So if you get back in 50 minutes, you've got 10 minutes to rest, sit in your chair, eat and then you go again. Right, and every hour on the hour that happens until you either can't get back in time, you decide you've had enough, you don't go and start the next lap, or you're late for it. It happens first.

Speaker 2: 32:28

So it's become quite a phenomenon, particularly over here. We're the second-ranked country in the world. So they just had the national championships and Belgium won it and we came second. Right, the Americans came third and we've got amazing backyard. So our number one Aussie, phil Gore he had the world record for a while and so I'm engaged in that. I love where it takes me. It's getting older, I'm not fast anymore, so the 6.7K in an hour is easy for me at the start and then obviously gets pretty hard as you get tired. So I like where my head goes. I like the social side of it. Everyone, when you get to lap two, we're all coming equal first, when you get to lap two we're all coming equal.

Speaker 1: 33:20

First you get to lap 10, we're all coming equal. First you start again, yeah, and then a lot of people pop off. I love that concept, and do you have a favorite sporting icon? I suppose could it be rob casella, or are there others?

Speaker 2: 33:27

um interesting, my favorite sporting icon would probably be a rugby league player.

Speaker 1: 33:32

Oh right.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Called Peter Sterling, right A halfback for a little fella. I met him once when I was a kid. He played for the team I follow. He just had something about him I admired. He's funny, small, tenacious, nice guy. He'd be my favorite, peter Sterling. And what advice would you give to your younger self? Don't gamble um. My advice to my younger self would be it'd be ride, ride the waves of life with a positive outlook. Yeah, so I let things get me down and I'm afraid to say it, in some places, but it's dark places.

Speaker 1: 34:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:23

If only that young fella realized that everyone makes mistakes and it's okay and ride it out. My youngest one of my boys had some bug issues, yeah, and I sort of taught him that, hey, this doesn't matter, we'll get over this, we'll get through this, and that's more of a positive aspect. That's what I try to teach my young.

Speaker 1: 34:44

Do you think what you've gone through has made you the person you are today? I mean, I know you've talked about that because of your you know you have quite an addictive personality, but the success of you know the app and you building a virtual running community and that kind of thing, you've had to go through that.

Speaker 2: 35:08

Yeah, yeah, it's not so much the business, it's who I am as a person close to the business, a creation of what I've been through the ability to talk, the ability to. I was at rock bottom and bouncing back and going through and learning about my thought pattern. So this person you're talking to now is vastly different than 30-year-olds. The people I'm around now like me. I don't think they liked the old Travis. What's happened to me has created an amazing I'm afraid to say it, an amazing person in my own mind. I have to say that to myself. I'm a good guy and I've come a long way as a result of a bad guy, a stupid guy, but yeah, it's definitely those lessons. I've had a relationship where I lost a wife. I lost seeing access to my kids and then my wife as a result of my kids, and it's made me a much, much better person.

Speaker 1: 36:06

Well, that's fantastic and we've had, I think, a wonderful chat and you are a very inspiring person. Um and uh, I just want to say thank you very much for coming on the podcast my pleasure.

Speaker 2: 36:19

Thank you for inviting me all the way from the uk.

Speaker 1: 36:21

Yeah, I know I still wonder, like you know, it's uh, it's amazing that from I don't know 12 000, so many miles away, that we're able to connect like this. It's amazing.

Speaker 2: 36:32

I know All right. Okay, just dark here and almost bedtime and yeah, you're going to get your day started.

Speaker 1: 36:40

Yeah, so, uh, okay, we'd just like to say uh, goodbye. And I said, uh, as I said in the beginning, um, we'll probably be splitting this podcast into two, but