SPEAKER_03 0:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:01

And where we go. So you're thinking about running, but not sure how to take the first step. My name is Brian Patterson, and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's ROM pod. Now, this week we have something a little different, but before we get into that, I just want to tell you a little story. The other day I was researching one of my guests who appeared on another podcast, and I was struck at how the host of the show was so energetic and upbeat, I said to myself, I must get them on the show. So I'm joined by Sasha Graham, the host of Sports Will Save Us All, a show that celebrates the wild, weird, inspiring ways sport shapes our lives. And let's be honest, runners know all about that. We know how a simple pair of shoes, a stretch of the road can rescue a bad day, fix a foggy mind, and drag us through the tough stuff, tough life stuff that life tosses our way. Sasha's got a knack of pulling out those stories, the ones that remind us of why lacing up matters. We get into the power of sport as a lifeline, the surprising things she's learned from interviewing athletes, and she has interviewed some real athletes across all corners of the sporting universe and why running has meant to her personally, or sport has meant to her personally. So settle in, grab the recovery shake, or keep cruising through your long run, whichever you're doing right now, because this chat is full of the kind of motivation one fellow obsessed weirdos can deliver. So welcome to the podcast, Sasha.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Oh, what an intro. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

So I usually start the podcast uh with what was your experience of sport when you're in high school? Because I know you're from the United States. And I just want to know, were you a natural athlete or were you very much into your books? Over to you.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah. So I I think all of the above. I um really my earliest memories are of being really physical and always, always, always loving to move my body. So I mean, I for some reason recently I keep having this flashback to like my uh it was upper elementary school. So I was probably in third, fourth, fifth grade, somewhere around there. And so here that's you know, nine, 10, 11 years old.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

And we would play Red Rover, right? And I don't know if you have that in England, but where two groups of kids would line up. So about, you know, 15 kids on either side, they would hold hands and they'd say, Red Rover, Red Rover, send Sasha right over. And if you could bust through their hands, and then because something assembly, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you you got to take somebody whose hands you busted through over to your side. And if not, if you couldn't bust through, then you know, they you had to join their side. And the the point, of course, was to get as many kids as possible. And yeah, and I loved this game. Like I loved sprinting as hard as I could, barreling through these kids' hands. I would I would bust through every single time, like and and they would call my name because they knew that you know it it was gonna go well for them either way. Either I was gonna take them over to my side or you know, I was gonna join their side, which was rare. But yeah, early that was an early memory of just really being physical. And then um, I just always played every sport. I um high school was actually in a way a little bit sad for me because I had to give up soccer, you know. It was just it was the same um season as volleyball. And so I had to choose between those sports for the season. So I had always played soccer as well. So in high school, I played volleyball and basketball, and then I ran track in the spring. So just was and then all summer long, um, I was in a place where sports were really competitive. So all summer long we would have camps.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

And some of them were local, some of them we would travel to, but um athletics were just absolutely central to who I was for a very, very long time.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

I know when I've talked to quite a few of my American guests that they have said they played soccer. Um, and I know at that time you, you know, soccer, I mean the female soccer team were very, very, very successful. And I don't know whether it was pushed on a gender-wise, or was it, you know, you know, the boys and the girls both played together, or they always, you know, because you you you on a professional level you were quite successful, the boys tended to do American football, whereas the girls did soccer.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

That's a great question. So when I was growing up, the um the younger ages were all co-ed. So no matter what we were playing, like we would, it would be boys and girls mixed teams, and then as we got older, we would um split up. But as there were some teams where girls could continue to play with the boys if they wanted to, and that was a lot of times what I did. Like I remember I was I played on a boys' traveling soccer team. So it was a um, you know, you had to be selected to go onto this traveling team. And so I I did that. Now what I'm seeing is that, you know, boys' soccer has also gotten enormously popular. Both, you know, boys and girls' soccer has gotten enormously popular. And a lot of these teams, including with my kids, were split from the time that they were really little. I think it was just a, you know, a numbers game at that point, you know, in order to create enough teams to have a league, they would, they would mix boys and girls. And now they have plenty of kids, you know, youth soccer now. And and you're absolutely right, you know, with I grew up during the, you know, Brandy Chastain and Mia Hamm and all of these superstars on the women's soccer side. And so I think that was part of it too, was that as these women became higher profile, you know, it became a sport that girls wanted to play. And that's just how that's how it goes, right? That w when we see it, that's what we want to do. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

And I know that female soccer in the States has been an inspiration to our, I mean, we're you know, um our team here over here with the Lionesses, and they've done very well, you know, the European Championships and getting to the final of the World Cup and that kind of thing. So I know the the the the US certainly did lead the way because I know over here it was very the the FA over here was very conservative and that girls weren't allowed to play in mixed teams or it wasn't pushed, you know, at um at school. So but um no, that's interesting that that was interesting. So uh I know that you reading your profile is that you were a Disney uh executive. So obviously, did that something that when you went to college, did you feel that you wanted to pursue a career in the media? Then obviously the you know, sport was very much a sideline thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Right. So I grew up on a farm in Oregon, which is in the western United States and very rural. And I grew up without a television. My parents were old hippies. And so they had given our TV away when I was really little. And so we grew up and and understand, you know, I'm not that old. It's not that it was before television. No, it was just that they made this decision to not have TV. And um, I was the only person I knew who didn't have a TV. And so, you know, what happened was we played outside all the time. And you know, we we did not watch TV. The other thing that happened was that I became fascinated with TV.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Oh right. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

So when you when you withhold something like that, you know, it's uh it becomes pretty mysterious and amazing. So I went to college in San Francisco in California and was a broadcast communication major. So from there, I um really thought that I wanted to be an on-air, you know, TV news anchor.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Diane Sawyer was sort of my idol at the time. Like I loved the stories, I loved the interviewing. And then this funny thing happened where I got these opportunities to be on air, you know, on television and you know, different things. And the amount of physical preparation, meaning like hair and makeup.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

It was really, it was really off-putting to me. Like I just want to pull my hair up in a ponytail and like run out the door. And what I found was that I could do that as a writer, but I couldn't do that if I was gonna be, you know, in front of the camera. So I shifted pretty quickly to, you know, this behind the scenes role. And, you know, through a series of events, I ended up working in publicity. So working with reporters and, you know, media types on promoting movies. And I was doing this in the Bay Area, still near San Francisco. And then again, you know, there were several jobs in there, but at some point I caught Disney's attention and they called me and they said, Hey, we want you to come down and work for us as a senior publicist.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

So you're headhunted. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah, yeah. And and and I had worked for them. I had done quite a bit of work for them before that. So they knew me, they knew my work. And so they brought me down to LA. And at that point was when I um worked my way up through the ranks and eventually became a vice president of national publicity there. So it was a, you know, amazing series of events, but it was precipitated by, you know, my parents withholding television as a child. And I was like, the the take note, parents. This is what happens. Don't give your kids candy, and all they're gonna want is candy.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

I mean, we will we will be getting to sport in a minute, but I just thought I'd lay the groundwork. But so is is a media tend to be concentrated within the east and west coast of the United States? Is would that be fair to say?

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. So we've got California and New York. Those are the those are the majors. Interestingly, here, and especially at the time, all of these TV stations would have affiliates all over the United States that ran pretty independently. So um, it was a nice time to be working in publicity for Disney because you know, there was lots of independence of these TV stations. It's they're getting gobbled up more and more and more, where you know, everything is looking the same, which makes me sad because I think local news is really important.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

I think at the time of recording, we're looking at sort of either the Warner Brothers sale that's going through Serbia. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, everything is is just getting you know gobbled up by all of these conglomerates where so but but at the time, not only was it just the you know, absolute, you know, wonderful time for these tentpole movies for Disney. So I worked on things like Findy Nemo and Pirates of the Caribbean and Freaky Friday and all of these really, really fun movies. Um, but you know, it also was was a great time to be working with media across the United States.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Great. All right. So let's kind of fast track a little bit. So what made you decide to think about right? Whether you woke up one day and you thought, hmm, I really want to do a podcast about sport, but not one particular sport. I want to try and do interview people about different types of sports and their particular stories.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

So uh we have to go back just a little bit to a dream that I had always had to write children's books. So I had always wanted to write a children's book. And when in 2017, around there, I suddenly thought, you know what, now is the time. And so I published my first children's book. It's called Milo Does Not Like Mornings, and it um did pretty well. I had a wonderful time working on it and promoting it and doing all the things. And so then the follow-up to that book was um ended up coming out in 2021. And it's called Whitney Wins Everything. And it is a kid's book, it's also a tiny ninja book, and but it's called Whitney Wins Everything, and it is, as my husband would call it, a semi-autobiographical uh children's book about this little girl who's super, super competitive. So the process of publicizing that book was that I ended up talking to a lot of sports podcasters. And when we finished the publicity campaign and sort of everything was put to bed and people were out there buying the book, it came time to think, okay, what's next? You know, we've all been at these points in our life, right? Where we're like, okay, so now I now it's time for my next journey, whatever. And and I thought, you know, what I really loved through this campaign was talking to sports podcasters. So I thought, I've never podcasts before. So this is in 2022. And I I started looking into it. And I thought, okay, if I'm gonna do this, how could I do it in a way that it will always be interesting to me? Right. That because what I found over and over again is that if I'm interested in something, other people will be too. Right. Whenever you talk to somebody, when somebody is super enthusiastic about something, like it's it's hard to resist that energy, right? And so I thought, how can I do that? And so I started looking around and I started looking at stories that I found really interesting, and they were coming from all over the sports world with this, you know, the thread that united them was just sport. And yeah, so I launched the podcast and, you know, it it seemed to have really connected with people in this really interesting way that it's not the sport itself necessarily that's connecting people to it, but it's this idea of being connected to other humans and this human experience that we all have and these sort of um human interest stories that people bring, because you know, people are way more than just one thing. So they might be a professional football player, but they also have, you know, all these other things going on that we don't see when we just look at the professional football player. So those those other things are the ones that are really interesting to me.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Started out, and you said, right, I'm gonna I'm gonna start doing this. How did you because I know when I started out, I kind of started out as a pretty much a solo, and it wasn't until later that maybe I kind of grew in confidence that maybe I could interview other people. Did you find where you kind of think, right, I'm gonna ask so and so, whoever it is, um to see, see if they'll come on to the podcast and you know, if they say no, it's okay. I won I won't worry too much about it, sort of thing. You know, I'm sure there'll be uh, you know, I'm sure they've got better things to do, you know, sort of thing. Was there a bit of um bit of a syndrome or anything like that? Imposter syndrome?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

I feel like I feel like I just got a great insight into how you are as somebody who dates Brian.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I don't know, I don't know your relationship status, but I think that um you asking somebody on a date, I I just had this like little, you know, glimpse in through the curtains of how that looks in your mind.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Um, so I um you you just got kind of rosy cheeked.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. I did blush a bit. Sorry, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

So for me, I knew from the get-go that I wanted to tell other people's stories. I, you know, of course, like everybody, I have my own stories to tell. And those end up being woven into, you know, people who I'm talking to. But for the most part, I knew that I wanted to talk to other people. That being said, those first few interviews, I remember just being so nervous. You know, I was nervous about equipment not working, I was nervous about, you know, dead air time, you know, I was just positive that I would run out of questions. So I would go in with seven pages of questions, right? Just so that I knew that I would have something if I suddenly blanked out. And what I found, of course, is that I really like talking to people. And so when I would start talking to somebody, instead of going through my list of questions, what I would find was I'd just be genuinely curious about wait a minute, you know, like this. I recently interviewed this bare knuckle fighter, a woman who's 38 years old, who spent several years incarcerated for substance abuse issues and all the things that go along with that. And as I was talking to her, it suddenly occurred to me, like, what does it feel like to punch somebody? Like, literally, like to punch somebody. And then she she described it in this really visceral way. And and those things, you know, I didn't have that question down in advance, but it occurred to me as she's describing these fights and not having anything on her hands. What does that feel like? And she described teeth going around her knuckles, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Oh no. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

That's the gold, you know, that's the gold, is is what just comes out. But to answer your question, of course I had that weird imposter syndrome of like, you know, who am I to be asking anybody these questions? But people have been so incredibly um willing to come on the show and so forthcoming. And, you know, I think that as humans, a lot of times we really want to share our stories for the betterment of other people. We want them to be able to learn from something, an experience that we had. And um the amount that it's restored my faith in humanity just cannot be overstated.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Oh, good. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

But do you think that I mean I know podcasting has become increasingly popular now, that it has meant that it's kind of restored that communication which maybe we have lost in the last, you know, 10, 15 years. Um that, you know, either be other due to, you know, digital, you know, people are on the phones and that kind of thing, and that people are just wanting to talk to other people about their life experiences.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

I certainly hope so. You know, I have found that it has affected my life profoundly in just having these conversations and thinking about other people and thinking about their lives in preparation for my interviews. But also, you know, and anybody who listens to podcasts, your audience will certainly know this that, you know, when we have something in common with someone else, and if that something else is having listened to the same podcast, it is so fun, right? It's just fun to be like, oh, hey, did you hear Brian's podcast this week? Yeah, no, I was thinking about, you know, X, Y, and Z. Like, so the communication and the connection happens on several different levels. So it happens for me personally, it happens for my guests, it happens for our listeners and you know, our listeners with us and our listeners with each other. So to answer your question, you know, a resounding yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

In the early days, what did you learn from your guests? I mean, obviously, there must have been um, you know, since then you've probably learned quite a bit. But in the early days, did it really teach you um as to how you would answer your questions, or what type of journey would you take them on the podcast, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

I think that listening back to my earlier episodes, I think that my the main sort of progress that I've made as an interviewer has been that I've become braver. So I think that I was nervous early on to ask questions that might offend somebody or that, you know, would be crossing a line somehow. And I I'm not talking about, you know, asking anything horribly personal, but uh I was nervous about um offending people. And what I found is that people are just enormously forthcoming. And when they know that your motivation is not salacious, you know, that that your motivation is sort of pure, people will they'll tell you almost anything. And that part of it, I think I've I've gotten better at is knowing where I can ask more and also, you know, quite frankly, where to pull back. You know, when somebody is getting uncomfortable or they seem like, you know, this has gone far enough, then you know, we can we can pull back.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yeah. Because it's like, I mean, I mean, I've only just met you. So obviously it's, you know, we're going into kind of a little bit of a kind of a formal setting. So it's very hard to try to get the maximum out of that particular person when you've only just, you know, unless, okay, I have interviewed friends of mine and it's a very different style. Um and, you know, it's a lot more relaxed, whereas obviously I know, let's say, if you just meet someone, you're just trying to get a feel, like you said, that dating thing. You're just trying to get a feel as to where where do I go, you know.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Right. So I I think that one of my goals is to treat everybody who comes on the show like somebody I've known for 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

You know, that if I can get to that spot with them. And honestly, this is this is the funniest part and the most surprising part about the show is how many of the people I've had on, even virtually, who have become my friends. You know, that we and I think it's because, you know, we've taken the time to spend, you know, just in this one-on-one, really intimate conversation. And that is something that is hard to achieve in just day-to-day life, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:51

So moving on. So have there been any stories that really inspired you?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

I have been inspired so Many times for so many different reasons. I mean, I think that I could probably find something inspirational in every single interview I've done. And I think that that is the magic of really listening to other people. That every single person I've had on the show, whether it's something that they've done physically, you know, I think that I mentioned to you this Teresa Bowser, who is an ultra runner who I had on the show.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

She is just an absolute wonder. I mean, and everything she said, she has this wonderful way of being in the world. And then she's describing just this excruciating pain that she goes through because it's not like she runs a hundred miles and it doesn't hurt. Right. She runs a hundred miles and it hurts and she does it anyway. And that to me is, you know, such a great metaphor for life that sometimes if you want to get a hundred miles from where you are right now, it's gonna hurt. And until you accept that, you some things are gonna be uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

You know, it's it's uh you just aren't gonna achieve the things. And to your point about being nervous about having guests on your show, for instance, like if you hadn't taken that plunge, if you hadn't put yourself in a position to be uncomfortable, you know, it uh you never would be where you are today.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

I mean, the um what was I gonna say? Basically, that they it's not just about being prepared physically in that situation, but in that situation, it's more about the mental, you know, overcoming sort of that that having that mental focus and it's kind of that mind over body type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

You know what's weird? What's weird about that is that I've interviewed a lot of people who have competed and completed Iron Man races. Yeah. So these just massively long triathlons. Every single one of them has told me that the challenge is mental, not physical, that anybody can do an Iron Man. And I'm not sure I believe them, but all of them have said that. That it is not a um anybody can get in that kind of shape, is what they say. I have not done one, but anybody can get in that shape. It is the mental part of it that, you know, really, really will test you. And um, I find that just fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was listening to one of your podcasts the other day, the, and I think it's like someone who I've interviewed as well. And the name escapes me. It's the um Jeffrey Weiss, I bet. Jeffrey Weiss, yeah, that's it. Yeah. And he did the he tried to do the the comrades. And I think that one thing that really resonated with me is that he think he tried maybe two or three times and he didn't complete it, you know, and because on the comrades, there's a cutoff. Um, you have to complete so-and-so uh distance by so-and-so time, whatever, and he didn't complete it. But he got these like little medals and he was going to give them to his kids, and he came back and then he got them to close their eyes and open their hands, and he put these like little medals uh in their hands, and and he just said, Well, it's all about um you won't know about you know being successful in something unless you try. So which that which I believe.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

And success can look like different things. Yeah. You know, sometimes success is just trying. You know, in his case, he never completed that. I mean, it was 50-some miles or something by in this certain amount of time, a really, really gnarly course in South Africa. And, you know, to talk to him, you would think that he would be, you know, devastated that he had never completed it. And instead, it's this really healthy, I think, way of looking at things like, you know, getting to the finish line is sometimes not as important as getting to the start line.

unknown 25:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

And he had completed, he's he's he's done like three of the six majors. So he has completed marathons or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

So there's no There's no shortage of accomplishment.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Exactly. I'd be interested to know what's um where did you get the name from, or what made what made you decide to get that name from? Because it sounds quite evangelical. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

I was worried about that actually. I was worried. I was like, does this sound too much like and you know, the one of the first comments was I can't wait to be saved.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

Oh yeah. Yeah, sounds quite, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, take it, take it as you will, if if that resonates with you. You know, it really came from a place of disconnection. And, you know, I think that we're seeing this around the world right now, but you know, particularly in the United States, we've had some politics over the last, you know, now, yeah, like, you know, however long, that have left people just intensely divided. And when I was thinking about what I wanted to do with my show, I was thinking, where is the one place that we can come together? Where is it that I don't care who you voted for? I, you know, that is the least interesting thing to me about you. And I realized it was sport. And so I thought if there's anything that is going to get us through this and is going to remind us that we have more in common than not, it is sport. And that's what's going to save us. And so when I was thinking about the title for my show, I thought, you know, sports, I I went through a few iterations of thinking, you know, sports will save the world, sports, and I thought, no, it's about us. Sports will save us all. And it's been interesting to talk to people because the title really resonates with people for different reasons. You know, on a really personal level, a lot of people who talk about how, you know, I was miserable until I started running, and running saved me, you know, that I hear that a lot. And or I was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

The mental health aspect of it is is quite important. I mean, especially now. I mean, people are getting very anxious about a lot of things. And I kind of worry about, you know, people younger. I mean, I have two children who are in their twenties, and um I understand you've got boys, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 28:16

I have I have three kids. I have uh a sophomore in college, a freshman in high school, and a senior in high school.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Oh, right. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

So I think I just did them out of order for some reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

So I uh no, I've got uh I mean my uh girls uh um uh Anna is 25 and Alice is 22, so they've they've finished their university. And so, but um I do worry about sort of you know what's to come. Whereas, you know, when I was I mean, I'm 62, uh three, sorry, and and the so I kind of you know worry and and and I kind of catch myself thinking like it was kind of things were more relaxed in when I was their age, that kind of thing. Or we didn't worry so much, or maybe we was there were I I I don't know, but I I just tend to think that that's you know, more and more we need to be looking after ourselves, either from um not just a mental health point of view, but I mean mental health will also help with you know how doing physical exercise, getting out there. It doesn't have to be running, it could be any kind of sport. And like you said, I mean, you know, even um team sports, it could be dancing, you know, that kind of thing. So that will help us to connect, you know, try and maybe realize that things aren't aren't so bad. Things will be okay so long as we stick together and try these sort of other activities. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

I mean, of course. Of course. Like I and I think that running is, you know, it's so magical because A, you know, it it is a lot of bang for your buck. It is inexpensive to do, you know, you don't need to put together a team. You know, I interviewed a former professional football player recently, and he said, you know, one of the problems with football is that after you're off the, you know, after he left, he played for the Denver Broncos here in the US. And he said, after I was off the team, you can't just play pickup football somewhere, you know, that it's you have to get all of these people together. You've got to have, you know, you can't do it. And so we were talking about things that, you know, retired athletes do because it's hard to get together, you know, enough people to play, you know, whatever it is. And so we were talking about running and we were talking about basketball. He plays pick up basketball now. But I think that a lot of our anxiety now, to your point, is not only what's going on in the world, but our um our knowledge of what's going on in the world, you know, that you and I had the benefit of being ignorant of things that were going on. We just didn't know because there wasn't this, you know, absolutely all-encompassing social media all of the time. All of this firehouse. There was no internet. Like there were no cell phones. Like it just, it was so what I what I tell my kids a lot because they are incredibly well informed and they're really thoughtful. And my son, when he was home for Thanksgiving, was was talking about the economy. And, you know, he's a business major and he had some real concerns about what's going on with the world economy. And and I I applauded him on being informed. And then I said, But on the day-to-day, you have to decide that you're just gonna be happy. Yes. And you're gonna have to make that conscious decision. I I agree.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

There's definitely there's so many, there's so many reasons to not be happy or to be anxious or to be stressed. And if we just say, Oh, you know, I understand that's all there, but today I'm gonna choose to be happy. Um, a lot of times that can go a long way.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

In this episode, we dive into the world of sports with Sasha Graham, host of Sports Will Save Us All podcast. Sasha shares a journey from a childhood filled with physical activities to a career in media and podcasting. We explored the mental resilience sports provide, the evolving role of gender in athletics, and how sports can unify us in a divided world. Tune in to hear inspiring stories of athletes overcoming challenges and redefining success, and discover how choosing happiness can transform your life. More from Sasha next week, and goodbye for now.