Welcome And Why Movement Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So you're thinking about running, but not sure how to take the first step? My name is Brian Patterson, and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's ROM pod. Continuing our conversation with Wendy Welton, the author of Move Well for Life and also the founder of Reclaim Movement. As you might have gathered, this is a bit of a departure from my regular guests as we are focusing on movement. However, running is more than just a physical activity, it's a journey towards holistic well-being. In these episodes, we explore how integrating diverse movement patterns into your daily routine can enhance your running experience. By embracing natural movement and varying your exercise, you can improve joint flexibility, reduce injury risk, and increase overall enjoyment. We start episode two with my observation on how we, as adults, have lost the ability to play. So without further ado, let's get into the conversation. And if you haven't listened to part one, then please do go back in our catalogue.

How Adults Stop Playing

SPEAKER_00 1:26

And also the other thing is that on my way home here, I walk through a park which has a playground, and you see kids playing there. And in fact, it is that we move away from kind of our childlike experiences, how we don't, and people do talk about this, um, we don't play anymore. Um and this is one of the things I picked up from your book. Like apart from how, you know, thousands and thousands of years ago, you know, it was fight or flight, and it was how even going back maybe post-war, we didn't have um the technology. Um, you know, nutrition was so-called better, you know, because there was rationing. And then there was, you know, there were probably we were exercising more. You only have to look at pictures and see people are like, you know, three or four stone on average lighter than they are now. Um for my American uh for our American listeners is that's like 36 pounds. But I mean it it is, it's it's uh it's it's amazing how, you know, like you said, um in the last 20 years, if not 30 years, how um we have become gone through these various linear type of movements.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

And I think it's only gonna get worse, is not that I don't want to speak say it negatively, but it's it's the more aware we can become of what the development of this world is doing to our bodies by what it's removing.

Convenience Culture And Micro Choices

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yes, every time there's a choice for something where it makes life more comfortable or adds more convenience, then we have to think, okay, what's the opposite of this? And you know, the classic simple taking the stairs instead of the lift, I always talk about the the interesting thing. And this is never to berate people for um not doing because inherently our body wants to do the easier thing, wants to reduce the calorie expenditure, it wants to ensure that for survival purposes we are doing the least we have to so that we are ready to use that energy when it's needed. And now that we don't have that use anymore, we've had to make artificial constructs to make sure we're using the energy. We miss so many moments. And when people get off a train or a plane, they walk up to the escalator, they stand in a queue waiting for the escalator, having just sat for hours, yeah, and then they stand on the escalator, and the stairs are always right next to it. And I always encourage people to obviously take the stairs, but most importantly, when they get to the top, applaud themselves for the effort they've had to add in. Because no one's saying it doesn't take an effort, it doesn't make, you know, it's not harder. That choice is not harder. Of course it is, and obviously you have to still be capable. If something's restricting you, then take the escalator. But if you can make that choice because and then at the top, applaud yourself. Because the more we say to ourselves, well done, the more we are likely to keep making those choices as we age. And sometimes you can get to the point where, like as it is for me now, it becomes a non-negotiable. And it's those choices that we have not just in those bigger moments, but in the small moments all throughout our day. What is making our life easier? And do we have to do it that way? Or could we add in some complexity, some variety that's going to use our joints and our muscles in a different way?

Joyful Movement Over Metrics

SPEAKER_01 5:25

I just go back, sorry, to your point about playfulness. Yes. Playfulness is vital because not only does it really um calm our nervous system and make us move far more naturally, um, it also connects us. It's it's usually you we can be absolutely playful on your own. And I, you know, I do I jump puddles when I'm out walking, I balance on tree trunks, I climb things because I know I will always feel better and had have had more fun afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

But also, it is a way of connecting with people and with our environment in such a different way, and it brings so much joy, and we lack joy, uh, and we have this um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Especially these days.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

We do and so much we've got to get those pockets of joy in these mo these times and of life, and and and I think it's really, really key that we focus not on the serious exercise. What are we doing? How many steps are we doing? How many kilometers have we done this week? How many minutes of vigorous intensity and pull back to how can we enjoy the movement that our bodies are capable of and what makes us have fun and what brings all those lovely connections that we get. And the more we can shift that way, I think the more easily movement comes in general.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah. Um, I mean I totally agree because you may be, let's say, I know this is a podcast about running, but I think it's there's there are so many relevant things to it, but you may be training for a particular race, could be a marathon, you know, we've just had the London marathon as of time of recording at the weekend.

Frequent Movement Beats One Big Session

SPEAKER_00 7:09

It doesn't stop there. You know, movement is always going to happen. I mean, um, you know, my my my father died last year, but he was in a home, and uh the thing I I've noticed is that it's so important to be um on your feet and to be moving, especially at that time at that stage of your life, um, you know, because there is a lot of muscle wastage. To try and keep that going for as long as possible can only help uh help longevity in the future.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

So it really isn't about that stage.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

It's about every stage.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

There is no Yes, yes, of course, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

There is no age that that is not, to me, to my mind, the most important thing. Um, and I I can't cite the exact study, I'm I'm afraid, but there has been a study that um compared people who um were exercising hard um for sort of an hour a day, seven days a week, and compared it people to people who were moving well and vigorously, but not hard, but more frequently.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Rather than pockets of an hour a day and then sedentism the rest of the time. And those who were doing less vigorous, less intense movements, but much more frequently and sprinkled throughout their week were far less likely to have cardiac problems. Right. Um, and you just wouldn't think it was necessarily that way around.

unknown 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

But the point is that your resilience doesn't come from one bout and then nothing. Uh, it very much comes from shorter bouts, and that's not to say without intensity, but we need to be able to move in all the different ways so that we are capable of moving in all the different ways.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Right. Um I can't believe we're talking nearly uh nearly 40 minutes. I don't I can't help thinking that time is not on our side at the moment. But um, I wanted to get on to a what made you decide to write the book and then maybe to talk about the Move World for Life plan, and then we can sort of you know flesh that out a little bit if that's okay. So what what what made you decide to write it in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 9:26

I

Why Wendy Wrote The Book

SPEAKER_01 9:27

had already um created a short course. I wasn't doing courses at that point. I was coaching and had memberships, but I created a short course and I thought I start it started me thinking in more detail about what the key ingredients are.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Oh, can we see the book? Yes. No. Oh no. Yes, sorry, huh? There you go. You could put that on Instagram for. So yeah. Quick photo. Yeah, yeah, quick photo, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Um I um lots of my train of thought.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I know.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

I've got it, I've got it. Yeah, so I I was in making this short course, I was thinking, what are the key ingredients that I think are mainly missing from most people's daily lives? Either missing or they're not sort of leveling up. Um as a result of that, I had certain onlookers on my Instagram, the the lurkers that you don't know about, um, and one of the a couple of them, in fact, were publishers. And touch with me and said, Um, I really like what you do. Would you be interested in writing a book? And interestingly enough, about three years before, I'd created a little folder, which I only found much later. I'd forgotten about it, a little folder on my Google Drive called Book, where I'd written a list of ideas. Um, so the seed had been planted, but I didn't even realize. And when the opportunity came knocking, I thought this is something I really want to do because half of the reason I got into my business um was for me to keep coaching so that I could keep moving my body well, um, so that I could help others to do that as well through my methodology. But also the other half, which was kind of the Instagram side, was that I thought no one is talking about this. Everyone's talking about exercise. There's so many shoulds, should be doing weights, should be doing this amount of thing. Yeah. And no one was talking about the rest because quite frankly, it's not very sexy stuff, talking about moving up and down off the ground. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

You're not an Eliotard or you're in Ronnie Shorts. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

You know, it's it's about, you know, me clearing my cat litter up or getting washing out. You know, it really isn't sexy stuff, but it's vital. And I just wanted to share what I felt was a really important message. Um, and and obviously it took off on Instagram because it was relatable, because of the things that people do all day long. And yet I was offering them alternatives to the way that they were doing them now. And and my message being not just, oh, you you don't need to move any more than you currently are, most people do, but more that you can add movement and varied movement onto the things you're doing in your life anyway. We don't need to be ramming in extra chunks of this and that, because quite frankly, knowing me, knowing many of the people I know, it doesn't work. It doesn't last unless you fall in love with the thing, like you become addicted to running.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

But to get those smaller things in is harder. So, yeah, so I wrote the book. It took two years, um, and it's a long process. But for that, I then thought, okay, I have been thinking about this sort of methodology. I'm now going to formalize this and make it a really solid structure

The MOVING Wheel Framework

SPEAKER_01 12:55

for the book. So I created what I call the move well wheel. Yeah. And I chose it as a wheel because I wanted it to be a moving thing rather than a sort of a static pillars thing. Um, and I also chose um it because I wanted each sort of element of that wheel to be seen as important as each other, so that if one chunk of that wheel wasn't quite working as well, the wheel's not going to roll as nicely. And that was kind of my thought process behind choosing a wheel. And therefore, each of the six parts of that wheel are, to my mind, of equal importance. So would you like me to run briefly through?

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Yes. Please go ahead. The floor is yours.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

So here we go, memory test.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I I chose a sorry, I've got it here on a screen, so I know I'm a piece of paper.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Um I uh happily squeezed it into the acronym MOVING because it's kind of relevant and also it would help me to remember it. Oh yeah. Because I need an acronym.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yes, very good. Um I mean just noticed that, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

So um M is is move more. And that's less about move more as in go and get some big chunks of exercise in, unless you are, you know, hopefully you are already. If not, then great thing to do. But more importantly, move more frequently. So breaking up those longer periods of sitting often, but sedentarism in general or holding one shape.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Oh, is Can I just stop you there? Yeah. Because I know it's something you do talk about is either sort of having a um a diary of things. So do you start off with uh this is what I'm doing on a weekly on on the on for the week, if you can remember that. And then maybe use that as a starting point to start moving more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

So that's why I thought it how can I make this p easy for people who read the book? So I created what I call the everyday movement plan, which you can download from my website once you've bought the book, the links are in there, blah de blah. Um, but that I take three days. I don't do a whole week, I do three one weekend day, two weekdays to kind of straddle the kind of the typical days. So it's more to get you to look at that. And you know, you can either color code, you can make it sedentary or not, you can exercise, whatever works for your life. And a huge premise of my book is how does this work for your life, not my life, yeah. So prescriptively saying add this, you've got to make the choices for yourself because unless you do, it's not gonna stay. Um, so yeah, so exactly. So for each of the six, then I am getting you to first of all audit where you're at at the moment with compassion, not a stick to beat ourselves with, very much to say this is my start point, my line in the sand, and this is where I can progress from.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Um, so the second one is um oppose repetition.

unknown 16:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

And that's all about variety. We get into lots of movement patterns on autopilot where we do the same thing on repeat day in, day out, in exactly the same way. So my invitation with that is to start thinking, okay, so if I go to pick stuff up off the floor because I have messy boys and there's stuff everywhere, yeah. What are all the different ways I can pick that up off the floor? I can just articulate, curve my spine, and drop down and not use my hips and my knees. That's one option. It's not wrong. It's just often the default that I go to and many others do. So instead, I'm going to get low using my hips and knees, both either hip width or externally rotating the knees and getting lower, but still with my heels up in a deep knee band. Or I could use a deep squat where my heels are on the ground and I'm curving more through the spine. Or I can balance on one leg and tip over and see how close I can get to wobbling and falling. Um, or I can have the thing to my side and do a split squat. There's all sorts of ways we can do it. And I've sort of listed them in the book and sort of formalised them, and there's little videos to go with it as well. But the point is actually, how playful can I be with creating silly random shape? The more I do that, the more I'm going to get different inputs into my body. And the more variety of input we have, the better we are using our joints in a whole wide, different number of ways. And we're do and we're tending to use more joints as well, rather than just the same patterns. So that's opposed repetition. V is very levels, and that is all about my pet obsession of being on the ground.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Oh yes, yes, I do see that on the Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. I was half expecting you to be on the ground for the podcast, but I I'm stood up for that. Very good.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Um so um standing, great, but not all the time. So standing desks, people are sort of, oh yeah, this is the solution. No, because you're standing for a long period of time. And if you're slightly dysfunctional or whatever, that's going to really cause you problems. So standing mixed with sitting at a desk, mixed with sitting on the ground. So I have a standing desk that I use on the ground. And being on the ground is for me, we can look to so many other countries to be inspired, Japan, India, where people use all the time and happen to age really well in terms of their ability to get up and down off the ground because they're doing it daily. It's not about a skill that we um is difficult to do. If we're doing it regularly, it we can build it back, we can get really good at it. But the point is again, the variety of different ways. I teach about seven different ways to get up and down to the ground and using that variety. But then when we're on the ground, we can only achieve positions with our knees, our ankles, and our hips on the ground because of the fact that the ground is making us forcing us into these different seating positions. And again, people sort of get fixated on, oh, but I, you know, cross it's really difficult for me, or there's other positions that we've got to lean. Of course it is, because we're not using it very much, our bodies are not adapting, but also because we have this fixation that we should be satin cross sit like we're in assembly at school for hours. No, we should be moving. And the beauty of the floor is that it gives us nudges all the time to move. We get a little bit uncomfortable. Yeah, that's true. That's a good thing. So we shift and then we're okay again. And then we get a little bit uncomfortable again, shift. We move. We are moving all the time. We are holding our upper bodies up, using our core, which is not what we do when we're leaning against a chair back. The ground has so many huge benefits. So very levels is try to use all heights and even above standing, so reaching up high on our tiptoes so that we're balancing more, jumping, climbing. That's what V V is about. Sorry, shift on. Um I is integrate load.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

And this is only once we feel that we have built ourselves from the ground up. So I always start my courses on the ground and move up. So I go back to early developmental patterns. I talked about crawling and so on. It's really important that we become more um improve our alignment and improve our mobility before we then add load. And load I would also talk about as repetitive load like running. So for me, it's important that you feel like you're strong and mobile before you then add the load and intensity and impact of running.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Um it's not always that way around. Um, then N is um nurture um fun. Yes. Nurture joy. Nurture joy.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

And that is all about the fun that we've talked about and the importance of all the huge benefits that that can bring. Um, and then G is get outdoors because for me, we are uh caged animals and we're very much shaped by our modern world environment. We're outside, things change, um, and mentally it's better for us. And obviously, we know there's all the benefits of breathing fresh air, being in The sunlight and so on. So that's my my moving wheel, uh all of each part of which I think is equally important to the other.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Yes. So it it's not like uh one follows on from the other.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

It's they all interlace because you know if you think about getting up and down off the ground, you're moving more. You're opposing repetition because you're on the ground and you're shifting all the time, so you're bringing in variety, you're varying levels because you are on the ground, not seated on a chair. You're integrating load because you are resisting your own body weight against gravity. Hopefully you're having some fun and then you're outside. Lots of movements can straddle them all.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Yes.

Getting Comfortable On The Floor

SPEAKER_00 22:47

What do you say to someone who says, well, I say me in point, is that I'm not very good at being on the ground. Um so or having my legs crossed on the ground. How can you encourage someone to try to get on the ground?

SPEAKER_01 23:06

When you say you're not very good at it, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Does it mean I find it uncomfortable? I mean it could be lower it might be that sort of like lower back, finding I'm having to support, you know, my hands behind me or have support. It's just not a whereas my my my wife and my children, you know, it's it seems to be sort of quite natural sort of thing. But it's something that I would like to do, you know, yeah, more of or be able to become comfortable at.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Exactly. So it's as natural to you as it is to them, um, because you have a a human body. Yes. But because you've probably done it much less over more recent decades since you were a child, therefore it you ha your body hasn't had those inputs, and therefore it's going to feel less comfortable, especially if you're comparing it to a chair. So I always talk and I start off my courses particularly about low-level exposure. If you believe uh that what I say is true about the fact that um that it is beneficial and you can see that that makes sense, yeah. The next step is to say, okay, what's the lowest um sort of hanging fruit I can grab here? And for me, it's about what you're doing when you're there rather than being there. So starting off almost as a distraction, um, what's the one activity you could do that you do daily, sat in a chair or standing, that you could do on the ground that's only a minute or two, or three or four, it could extend a little bit. Um, and choose for a week to do that thing at ground level. I mean, it's like um we have to make it comfortable. Yeah, make it comfortable. Don't sit on hard surface. Well, goodness no, why would we do that? That's agony. Make it comfortable. Have blankets, cushions, be on a carpet, be on a rug. Always bolster the side that feels pulled. If you're sitting in a cross-set position and you feel like you're going to topple back and you've got to grab your knees, one or two cushions under your rear so that you can be a little bit more upright and relaxed. Yeah. Bolstering yourselves, it's not cheating, it's enabling us to be there and start to allow our bodies to adapt to the position. And then when you're there, don't think about forcing yourself to be in a position for a long time. That's not the point. The point is to keep moving here and there as your body asks you. So learning a number of different positions, absolutely leaning on an arm until you no longer need to, up to the other arm. Move your legs around.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Uh there's such a variety of positions to be used, and you can get a horde of them on my Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah. And and learn a few different ones so that you can just switch and switch. And then if it feels okay and not hard because you've made it comfortable and you've done the thing, then get up. And if you need to use something to get up off the floor, then use it. Of course you do. There's no we're not this is not a meant to be a struggle and difficult. Right. Starting to bring it in as a new habit that you're good advice.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

It's like, for instance, that we have pots and pans at a lower level, and to get to them, I have to go at that level, you know, to to take out sort of thing. And I think that's good advice for people generally is that is you know not to have them at you know at your eye level, to have them lowered down. So you're forced to having to to go and reach uh and go at that, you know, at a at that lower level.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yeah. And if you sort of think, okay, I'm going to use the handheld upright hoover for this small amount of mess on the ground, just check in. Okay, this is a modern world contraption. And this is a small task. I could get the dustpan and brush and get down low and and do it myself and not hold the position rigidly. There's this whole thing of, you know, how long can you hold the move, respond to the fact that your body's asking you to move to relieve any tension that's building up. And again, if you do that and you make that choice, you've got down there and up. So you've strengthened your legs in doing that because you've resisted gravity, you've got your knees, your hips, and your spine into different ranges than you would if you were doing an upright hoover. It's all the it's it's all about choice.

Why Variety Protects Runners

SPEAKER_00 27:44

So I know it's very hard or um to sort of make that or well, to make that leap to see how what we've been talking about could relate to someone who is running. I mean, I can see that a lot of things could help because running is obviously a very mechanical thing. Um, you know, your body is moving in a certain linear thing, but also I can't help think, that feeling if you agree, that it will help maybe you you won't get particularly injured or have repeatable injuries. It'll help with the efficiency of you particularly running. Is there anything else you feel that you could add to that?

SPEAKER_01 28:28

No, I would just wholeheartedly agree. The more that variety we can get into, the positions we use that makes our joints move differently to running, to walking and so on, it's that variety piece that is the one takeaway that I would want people to think about. Because we all know that if you sit for a long period and stand up, you've got stiff hips. And if we haven't had that variety frequency of movement through um the the time in our day, and our body is held quite tightly in one set pattern, if we then, even with a stretch and a warm-up, go to then run and put the load through that.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

We're asking for problems. Yes. Makes sense because our our bodies, when they run, and particularly on uneven surface, which you know, the the ground is so much better as we know to run on than a hard surface, um, when our body is responding and reacting to bumps, to inclines and so on, which is so good, those inputs are brilliant for the body. We need it to be able to already, for example, we need the ankle not just to be used to being in that linear pattern, but to be moving in a whole variety of ways. And you obviously get that through running, but to prepare it for running, so you're not going to go over on so on, you also need to be doing that in daily life anyway.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah, yeah. And I just think that you are because you're moving maybe more on a daily basis, it doesn't seem such a complete violent movement when you start running. And I think you just tend to enjoy it more.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

So Yeah, absolutely. Your tissues are are sort of more and then prepared and ready for that. But it's it is harsh. It is, you know, a lot of it's three finding the body weight, it's a lot of impact on joints.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

But it doesn't mean that's a bad thing. It just means that we need to prepare our bodies by doing a whole load of other different sports as well. Yeah. And moving in a whole variety of ways.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Um I think it's probably just coming up to the end of the

Kindness, Injury Mindset, Closing

SPEAKER_00 30:55

podcast. I is there just one takeaway that so many takeaways by people listening to the podcast. Um, if there is there just one sort of takeaway that people could, uh my audience could take away from listening to this um that you might give them?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

I I would definitely say that it's it about being what what's the the kindest thing that I can do for my body today so that I can still continue to run for as long as I can and not be injured. And if I do get injured, to to not be too harsh on ourselves and know that from personal experience you can get through it when you really look at the underlying cause um rather than the symptom. And obviously, my my main tip is always get to the ground.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Yes, yeah, of course. Um if you could just stick around until after uh when we finish recording, I just wanted to say it's been fantastic having you on the podcast. Um and uh I it it's been a wealth of information and education. And as I said, I probably split the podcast into two episodes so we can get a double dose of Wendy. And um and as I said, uh I I I think I've really thoroughly enjoyed it today. Um I hope you've enjoyed it yourself.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

I have absolutely. And I think because having you know been a very keen runner in my past and and potentially will be in the future, yeah, um, I think I hope that it resonates with your audience because then if they listen to some of the advice and and have heard my experience, then hopefully they can keep running for life. And that's what we want.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

That's what you want. Okay. Well, I just want to say uh goodbye from Wendy and also goodbye from me, Brian, and and and I'm sure um my audience have enjoyed it just as much as I have. So thank you very much. Goodbye.