Hook And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So you're thinking about running, but not sure how to take the first step? My name is Brian Patterson, and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's RomPod. And well, I'm always scouring social media and on the lookout for exceptional running coaches. Well, in today's episode, I know you're going to enjoy, you're not going to be disappointed. I'm joined by Amanda Brooks, a running coach, author, and the voice behind Run to the Finish. So Amanda has helped thousands of everyday runners train smarter, stay injury-free, and actually enjoy the process without getting caught up with the pressure of pace and perfection. What I love about Amanda is her approach in that it's real. She's all about meeting runners where they are, where they're just starting out or just chasing the next big goal and cutting through all the noise in the running world. Also, her way upsite is packed with reviews on the gear and kind of helps your running journey. With over 20 years' experience and clocking over 36,000 miles in running, that's amazing. So in this conversation, we're going to dive into what runners often get wrong, how to build consistency, how to create a healthy relationship with running, plus so much more. So this is a Gordon, so let's get into it. And so let's give a Brian's Run pod welcome to Amanda. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Thank you, Amanda, for agreeing to come on. And I I just wanted

From Hating Running To Half Marathon

SPEAKER_01 1:55

to say that like I do with most of my guests, I kind of like to start right at the beginning whether you were sort of like a national athlete growing up in high school in the States. And, you know, was this always the path that you were you were going to take?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah, I played sports from a very early age. So in that way, I was athletic. Um I had I ran into a couple issues. One, I was not aggressive or competitive. So I was the tall girl. I was supposed to be great at basketball, but I refused to take the ball from other people. So that didn't go great. Um, but yeah, I played a ton of sports and I enjoyed them, but running only ever happened, honestly, when I was being punished, like you were late to practice or something like that. We didn't even hardly do it as like training. It was really, it was punishment. So I never enjoyed it. And I do remember, gosh, probably when I was somewhere between 10 and 12. And so I was sort of having that growth spurt. Yeah. And I was in softball. And I remember them telling me, you just look really awkward when you run. So like none of this was building up to me being someone who was suddenly gonna fall in love with running and do it for so long.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Did you? I mean, I don't know if it's like in in the States, but I know uh cross-country running was, I mean, when I was sort of like 12, 13, 14, you know, it was like part of the curriculum of physical exercise. Once a week you do cross-country running. And and I know I kind of, for some reason, I kind of excelled in that. Um, was that not the case where you were?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

So once we got to high school, in gym class, you had to run a timed mile. Okay. I literally wanted to do this so little that I took gym class over the summer.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

All right.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

And over the summer, you could walk it. So me and friends would just walk around the track for four laps and call it a mile. Um, so yeah, I mean, really and truly, nothing was pointing towards me learning to love running.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Right. And in uh and in college, what what did you did what did you major in in college?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, so in college, I went to school as a journalism major. I always knew yeah, writing was something I wanted to do. And um, so I didn't do any sort of team sports, but I was always still really active. And then I had the opportunity to run a half marathon with some friends, and it was a road trip, and that is the thing that kind of got me into it. And it sort of went from that's a really hard thing, why would I do that? To, oh my gosh, this is a really hard thing, and I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah. Did you must do much must training for it?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah, very much it was, I did not have any sort of plan, but it was kind of an intuitive run-walk process. I just sort of realized like I had a loop and I would just try to run a little bit farther, pretty consistently, until I had kind of built up to, I mean, I knew nothing. I was 20, you know, your body is more adaptable. So I think I had that going for me.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

If only I was 20 again.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Things seemed so much easier. So should

Building Run To The Finish Community

SPEAKER_01 5:30

we skip forward to the birth of Run to the Finish? So, what made you decide to start um start the website? Obviously, you've got a journalism background, I understand. So maybe gave you a bit of a head start.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

It did. So, really and truly, I didn't end up going to work for a newspaper. I ended up going into e-commerce consulting. So everything I was writing was very technical. And then in 2005, blogs became a thing. And I thought, oh my gosh, I don't know any other runners. Maybe this is a chance for me to like just connect with some other runners. So it's wild to me. I picked the name Run to the Finish in 2005.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

And you've obviously you've you've stuck with that, and you you don't feel that it's, you know, you need to change the name or anything like that. You kind of need to.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

No, and I think, yeah, when I picked it at the time, it was very much me thinking about that mental aspect of just keep going. Yeah. Keep going till you hit the finish line. Um, and I feel like it has still kind of felt like the right fit all these years later. Um it wasn't till about 2012 that I would say it really shifted away from here's my daily run, to me suddenly being like, wow, I could really use my skills and write helpful information for other runners. And that's really when I leaned into coaching as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Oh, right. Okay. Because that was going to see be my next question. This is up because I know I was listening to one of the podcasts and you said, you used to uh post your runs on Instagram, and then you realize, well, no one's really interested. So so and maybe it was maybe it was probably around about that time that maybe you felt you could be more qualified in terms of coaching others.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah, I think it probably was similar timing where I was just kind of like, this isn't useful to the wider world hearing about my run every day. And I thought, I love writing, I love researching. I already have all these people asking questions. So why don't I put my time more towards trying to actually be useful instead of just sort of talking about myself?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

So obviously you've been doing that for quite a time. Has in your opinion, do you think there's been a mass, a marked change in terms of the landscape of running? Say, for instance, what people were asking you then compared to what people are are asking you now?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

In some ways, yes, and in other ways, no, because a beginning runner has a lot of the same questions, right? We're all kind of trying to figure out like, is this ever gonna not feel so hard? What shoes do I wear? Um, but yes, the amount of gear now, and I think just the amount of information now is overwhelming because there is so many people providing information. And of course, everyone has their take on things and what they think is the right way. And I do think that gets more overwhelming where it used to be, I mean, when I started in 2000, I either had Runner's World magazine or nothing. And so it was put on your shoes and go outside. That was kind of the end of the story.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Yeah. So do you think it was easier then for people in terms of, you know, because there wasn't, well, A, there wasn't social media. Um, and probably there in terms of the web, there probably wasn't as much information on the web in terms, you know, what what was uh, you know, people talking about running.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, I think in some ways it was easier because there was less pressure for it to look a certain way. You just were kind of like, I don't know, you just go outside and kind of figure it out. But in other ways, there's a reason we have such a massive boom now, and it's because more people see more people like themselves running and they feel like you don't have to be a certain pace or look a certain way because you don't, but we're actually seeing that now, and more races are genuinely catering to people of all abilities. Whereas honestly, in 2000, I mean, it was still a lot more about how fast folks were. And I've never been like a two-hour marathon runner. No, yeah. So yeah. Um, so it's an interesting, like maybe

How Running Culture And Gear Changed

SPEAKER_00 10:10

easier to start back then, yeah, but I think maybe more comfortable to try it now.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

And in those early days, in um on talking, I mean, with reference to, you know, you you setting up the website, was there a lot of interest or was that something that you to, you know, you kind of built up a community over time, you know? Um yeah, go ahead, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

It was interesting. So from 2005 till I went full time in 2012, I started running these free challenges where I would have 1200 people sign up. And it was because this was so new and novel at the time. And it makes me laugh now that I did so much work for free because no one was charging for anything back then.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

But I loved it and I loved the community, and that was what really sort of then pushed me to like go get certified as a coach, go keep getting more information so that I could keep being of use to these people. Um, so I did have kind of that base that had come with me that then made it possible to keep growing.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

And do you think that made a difference you being certified as a coach in terms of what information you're giving to people? I'm just wondering whether, you know, for some folks it was how many, you know, where who did you where you're certified be the American, whatever, you know, or beforehand, did they people just sort of take your advice even if you weren't certified?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah, I honestly think most people did not care.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Didn't care.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

It was more um for me, and and I will say this too, and I've said this in other places, run coach certifications are pretty basic. So I even went and got my personal training certification because it's more in-depth. And then for me, I just kept reading every single running book that came out and every single running book I could get my hands on to see all the different theories out there because the certifications in this particular area are they're pretty basic. So for me, it was kind of a I don't know that it mattered to anyone else, but I'm trying to continue getting more information. Now I do think people look for it. Yeah, I still don't think they actually know what it means to be certified because it's just not as intense as I think we assume.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Do you think the education or the qualifications have got better over the time? Or, you know, if you're saying back then it was quite basic, do you think um with you know, supposing if you were to run the same cause, would you running it differently now?

SPEAKER_00 13:08

So some so I mean there is one that references my book now, so I'd like to say it's a lot better. Um, that must be a thumbs up then. What I've seen that I do appreciate, I think, is now instead of there just being one run coach certification, now they're also doing additional on sports nutrition, on ultra running, on mindset. So they're giving you kind of almost that continuing education. They're giving you those additional areas um to expand your knowledge. And I do think that's really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Well, it's obviously we've kind of given a bit of foundation of where you've come from, you know, your history in terms of starting the website. Um in terms of the um what sort of mistakes runners make is, you know, early on, I mean, has are there any generic things that you've found over the years that that mistakes that runners, new runners are making?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple that are pretty consistent across most of us. Um so some of that being that maybe we start running and it's hard because it's hard for everyone when you're starting.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

But instead of us sort of realizing that maybe that pace should start to feel easier, instead, we just have an idea that it should always feel that hard. And if it didn't feel that hard, we didn't work hard enough. So we never actually move into that quote zone two or that easy running because we just keep kind of pushing ourselves. And I get that. You're like, well, this is hard. And so it should, it should feel like I worked really hard today. Um, but instead of sorting letting yourself like, no, I'm gonna stay at that easy pace and watch as that feels easier for me and then do some other things. Um, I think that's hard. It is a little bit of a mindset shift because we all want to see improvement and we think improvement should be pretty snappy. So if we've been doing it a couple months and we're like, well, but I'm not faster yet. So I just need to run faster. Um, it makes sense. We're we're all that way. Um, so that does lead to very easily either

Common Training Mistakes And Base Building

SPEAKER_00 15:35

consistently running too hard and kind of always using pace as your gauge too much too soon is the norm, I think, because again, we're always kind of trying to improve. The other thing that we forget is your cardiovascular system will adapt way faster than your joints and your tendons and your ligaments. So people don't love it when I tell them, I think you should be running for a year before you even think about running a marathon. But it's because I want us to yeah, it's we see their chances of injury drop drastically because they're all those little tendons and joints actually had a chance to adapt to the pounding before they added more on top.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Is that for a specific age um in terms of that actually applies across the board. So everyone, like, yeah, your body just takes some time. And the more I see folks have like that base before they go on to the longer distances, honestly, they enjoy the whole process more, but they are less likely to get injured. And certainly for our master's athletes, it can take a little longer as well as we're looking at recovery and things.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Now, I've got down here is that people tend to, and I think I well, I'm 64, or will be next month, but I tend to think that as we get older, strength training is so much, um, should be so much part of any exercise regime. And I'm just wondering with your new runners, whether it's something, okay, well, you're going to go running, but then you want to be supplementing it with some kind of form of strength training.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Yeah. So every single one of my coaches, um, we all of our athletes get both running and strength from us. Because I at this point, I just think if you're running without doing the strength training, we're not maximizing your health or your potential or reducing your injury risk. And that is interesting because when I started in 2000, we weren't talking about strength training. And so that has been a cool shift to see.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Do you do you think that's because of the types of exercises in terms of strength training exercises? Like, for instance, I I um went to a physio last uh last year who because I had an injury. The types of exercises he was like Bulgarian splits, um hexagonal, head deadlifts, that kind of thing. The type of exercises are being shown now, maybe you you wouldn't have been shown those exercises then because maybe the education wasn't there. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

I mean, you Yeah, so I think some of it actually starts at the elite level. So I interviewed Ryan Hall, I think 2009. And this was when he was at kind of the peak of his running career. And I remember asking him, do you do any cross training? And he was like, Absolutely not. You run to get better at running. Right. And that was the ethos among the elites. And now we see, nope, they're strength training. And so I think this was one of those things where it did kind of trickle down. We started seeing, oh, they're getting results from it. And then enough of us kept saying, you know, every single time an athlete gets injured, the PT tells them they need to do strength work. And so I think those two things kind of came together with like uh, yeah, this is a piece of the puzzle we've all been ignoring.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Because I know from my personal experiences that when I started putting the effort into either going the gym three times a week and doing those exercises by metrics and the strength training, I I wasn't getting sore after a run. And it was just that relief and feeling that I was feeling um so much stronger. But I just think you have to put that effort in, you know, for you to sort of to to progress and to get better.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah. Well, and I mean, honestly, too, for a lot of people, they start running as part of weight loss. Totally fine. I don't care what gets you to start, you'll you'll fall in love with

Strength And Fuelling For Fewer Injuries

SPEAKER_00 20:00

it. Yeah. But for a long time, we talked about that as just calories. Yeah. And so now we're like, no, no, you need muscle.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

And so I think that has also just made strength training more appealing and gotten more people like to start doing it. And I think that's important too. Cause like I said, I want people to be healthy, not just runners. And so it is the combo of the two that gets you there.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah. And do you think the um with the uh the newbies, um do you have to sort of educate them in terms of uh of of fueling themselves and because they are going to be undertaking um additional exercise, uh running exercise, and do you have to educate them about you know what kind of um uh you know nutrition or fuel to take?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, absolutely. So I always kind of say as a running coach, our wheelhouse is sort of what are you taking in during the run? If we're looking at like their big attack bigger dietary stuff, we have RDs that we love people to work with, but a hundred percent almost all of us are asking, like, what did you eat before your run? You told me a long run didn't feel good. Yeah. What did you eat? What did you take in? Um, because it is a weird sensation to be like, I'm gonna eat while I'm running. Like, what are you talking about? And so I do think for every new runner, that is a little bit of a mental, and you want me to eat this goo substance? Like, yeah. So, yeah, that's a process for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

In terms of your overall philosophy um about training smarter, can you sort of give us a sort of I I know it's of it's very hard when you're on a one to one is everyone's different, but what would you say in terms of your training philosophy is uh on a generic, generic view?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

I think there's no One specific way to get to the same end result. And so it really is for me. Are you enjoying this? Does it fit in your lifestyle? And does it match up with where you want to go? And so I think because maybe you're someone who loves to run on the track, or you're someone like me who's like, please don't ever make me run on the track. I'll do speed work anywhere else you tell me. Um, so there's lots of components that we can move around. And I think sometimes we make running feel really complex when often it's just simple but takes work.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah. Do you have any tips? Because you you said you don't like running on the track. I hate running on the treadmill. And I know you do reviews of treadmills. Do you have any tips for someone running on the treadmill? Because it's you know, it it's like whenever I go to the gym, I run outside and then I do the strength training afterwards because I just can't face sitting the treadmill. You know, so any tips for that?

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah. I love the treadmill, but it does different scenarios make a difference. So oftentimes in the gym, if you're not near a fan, it's hot. Yeah. And it being hotter is more uncomfortable. We also have a natural tendency on the treadmill to run too close to the front. Like we mentally think we're gonna fly off the back. So it will change people's stride. Their stride will get kind of choppy, and so then it feels more uncomfortable. So almost getting yourself to mentally think about staying towards the middle of the treadmill can make it feel a little more comfortable. If you have the option for a fan, that often makes a big difference. And then after that, I think it's like maybe for

Training That Fits Your Real Life

SPEAKER_00 23:55

you, you just don't want to do like steady state on the treadmill. That might just be too boring for you. So maybe treadmill is where like you do, you just change it up. Every couple minutes, you change the incline, you change the pace, even if it's small. So you don't have to turn it into like a hard workout, but you just make little adjustments. And then it also has broken the time down for you. Because now all of a sudden, every minute or every couple minutes, you're making a change instead of just like, oh my God, how much time is left?

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah. I mean, I I think I've what works for me or tries to work is to do sort of speed work, you know, because yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Um and I like speed work on the treadmill for a lot of people because it gives you a chance to learn how to hold a pace, which is takes practice.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's good. And in terms of the so basically you you you you feel that your philosophy is just like, you know, try to get people to enjoy it, to enjoy the exercise, see how it fits into their particular particular lifestyle. Um do you is there a sort of uh what's your opinion on it, say, morning running or after work running? Because I know sometimes you f I feel that it's after work, I have to have that more of motivation to be going out to run because I spent a day, you know, eight hours or so long running sort of thing. Whereas if I had, I mean, I know back in the day I I would think nothing of going going for a run before I went to work, sort of thing. Um any tips there?

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yeah, I think it really is wherever you have the best chance of consistency. So yeah, when I was in my 20s, I could run after work and I was fine and I loved it. Years later, when you ask me to go for a run at 6 p.m., yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, my brain can't cannot fathom that. I've been a morning runner for probably 15 years. And for me, that just works. I I have enough time to get enough sleep. That is probably the biggest issue for a lot of folks, is if you're putting your runs in the morning, I just had this discussion with an athlete, but she was to the point where she needed to get up at like 3:30 in the morning, but wasn't going to bed till 10 at night. And so she just, she's someone who needs eight hours. Yeah. And so we had to kind of like look at it and finally be like, okay, we're gonna have to figure out how you run in the afternoon because five hours of sleep consistently throughout marathon training is just grinding you down. So I think it really is

Consistency, Timing And The Sleep Trade Off

SPEAKER_00 26:40

where can you be consistent and being honest with like, well, I just know I'm I'm never gonna be the person that goes to bed at 8 p.m. So if I need to get up at 3 30, I'm gonna have to figure out how to shift it around.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

I suppose maybe in in that particular situation is maybe if she's her days off, then she does kind of the long runs, the longer types. Yeah.