Weekend Mornings For Race Practice

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So you're thinking about running, but not sure how to take the first step. My name is Brian Patterson, and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's ROM pod. We're continuing our chat with Amanda Brooks, running author, coach, and podcaster. In the second part of our discussion, we'll explore how to organize your week, when she begins to introduce her clients to more technical aspects of running. Plus, I'll ask her about how she got started in reviewing shoes and gadgets for runners. This part of the discussion was really enlightening. And if you haven't heard the first part, please do check out our catalog and listen to part one. So, anyway, without further ado, let's dive into our chat.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yep. And so it might be that during the week, if you have to get it in over lunch or after work, like that's fine. And then on the weekend, we do like to practice the early morning because that's what race day is going to be. And so that repetition of early morning can help with race day in the sense of I've practiced what's it feel like to get up and what am I going to eat versus, well, I needed a snack in the afternoon before I ran, but this is a little different. So if you are someone who runs consistently in the evening, it is still worth doing some of those morning runs to get you kind of prepped for race day.

When To Add Speed Work

SPEAKER_00 1:46

So a question just popped into my head in that of with your clients and those who are kind of starting out, or maybe those who are sort of like maybe been doing it for a while, when do you sort of introduce sort of the more sort of the technical side of running? What I'm talking about that is interval training, tempo running, you know, long runs. Um, you talked about, you know, zone two, that kind of thing. When do you sort of introduce that sort of thing? And and how what how would do you explain it to them? They're thinking interval things. Well, what's that sort of yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

So I would say at least for most folks, the first three to six months that you're running is a lot of like your body adapting and kind of figuring out like what's happening, why are you making me do this? Um, which doesn't mean that we don't do any hard workouts, but probably not a lot, because we're just trying to build that consistency. But during that phase, we might do some hill repeats where I say, hey, find a steep hill and I want you to run really hard up it for 20 seconds. And that's sort of the definition I'll give at that point is just really hard. Yeah. And then once we're ready to start introducing stuff, we usually do it by time and by effort. And that's by design. So maybe it's five by one minute at a moderate effort.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

And initially, like, what is moderate? They may not know, but that's kind of the goal. I want them to start feeling out these different intensities.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Because then it starts to give you all the days that are supposed to be easy. You're like, oh, wait a second. This feels exactly like when she told me to run moderately hard. So that means I'm not actually running easy. Um, and that's usually we'll start it with that kind of a thing because it gives you a chance to get more in tune with your body before we start putting in like very specific ranges or paces. And I don't have people think about heart rate for a little while as well. Same idea. When you're starting out, your heart rate's just gonna be higher. And that's okay. Um, so heart rate usually comes into play when I have someone who's been running for a while and constantly feels like a little run down or frequently injury prone.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

And then I start to kind of look at, okay, well, let's let's look at what you've been doing.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

And is it all about because I know

Running By Feel Not Numbers

SPEAKER_00 4:20

listening to one of your um uh one of your uh podcasts with your with yourself and Laura. So um it's really about, and I've heard this from other people, it's about the feel of running and trying not to sort of be too wrapped up into the data.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah, I mean, we have so much information on our wrist now. It's very hard not to sort of get sucked into every little piece of it. But I think most people, and I said this in my book, I just don't believe most people started running because they wanted to run a certain pace. They started running because it was stress relief, because it got them out of the house, because it made them feel good. And when we get so in the data, suddenly a lot of that goes away. Suddenly running is stressful. And it is this thing you have to make yourself do. So I find kind of keeping that focus of coming back to absolutely we can be making progress, but are you having fun? Like, did you enjoy? Like, not every run is perfect. We all know that. But yeah, for the most part, like, are you happy you're still doing this? And if we're getting too wrapped up in the data, it's very easy to lose that.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Now, um, moving on is um talking about, you know, the data. Uh,

How Shoe Reviewing Really Works

SPEAKER_00 5:43

and if that's a good way of sort of transitioning to the next part of the podcast, is that is that I'd looking on your website, you've tested thousands, hundreds of shoe shoes. How did that come about initially? I mean, does it you did you approach the manufacturers or did they come to you?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Or yeah, I mean, really as Run to the Finish kept growing and growing and growing, um, I had a lot of brands reach out and for a while I was sort of like, I don't know if I really want to write reviews, but then I kind of started doing it and was like, this is actually kind of fun. And now we actually have a team of 20 people um doing tests. Yeah. So that's how we do almost a shoe a day because we have a whole team testing. And one of the reasons I got more excited about it in probably the last three years was I felt like the majority of reviews out there were coming from people who could run like a 330 marathon. Oh, they were very fast. Yeah, and so yeah, when you gave them a basic daily trainer or a super cushioned shoe, a lot of the times they were like, I don't know, like, I don't know if I like this. And I was like, okay, well, a lot of my athletes are five-hour runners. They have a very different experience of these shoes. And I want them to get reviews that actually speak to them, to their body, to their pace, like their running gait. Um, and so that's actually made it even more fun for me.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

And also you have to be very careful. I mean, if you're doing uh a marathon and you're choosing the wrong shoe, then in terms of being very open to injury, um it it it can you know create stress trust factors or or something like that. So it's just as well you're doing offering the service and so that people can at least be a little bit more informed about um the the the right type of shoe for the the for their training.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Well, and it's expensive. Shoes are expensive. So I feel like I want someone to tell me if that shoe sucked, even though it's $200 or Yeah, and that's about the average price, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah. They've gone up substantially. Um, and so knowing like, oh, this one has a really narrow toe box, and you're like, oh, well, I'm glad I I knew that before I went and bought it because I happen to like a wide toe box or whatever your kind of your foot might be. Um that has been, it's been really nice to get people's feedback over the years on like, oh, I bought this shoe based on your recommendation, and it's exactly what I was looking for, or I didn't buy these because of what you said, and that was helpful too.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Because I know um there's a uh a news anchor over here, and she does a lot of running and she writes um for running, and she had the um carbon flate plate carbon plated uh shoes, and basically she ended up having a stress factor. And she was she was a like a 330 runner, and she she you know, she put it down to the type of shoe that that um that she had bought what she'd been using.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah, they're definitely not for everyone, um, which is an interesting now. There's a whole like depth of them, so they are for all paces, but it's that super bouncy foam creates a different landing pattern. Um actually, even a number of elite runners were having Achilles issues when a lot of these shoes first came out. And it's because suddenly we were drastically changing this landing platform.

First Bits Of Gear That Matter

SPEAKER_00 9:37

What about sort of if you're getting into the running and people are coming to you and saying, I'm really enjoying this, uh, this new sport or whatever. What's um what kind of other you know, gad should I be um getting to enhance my runs? Or do you tell them, you know, just hold out here there. There's uh there's so there's there's so much on offer, but just be uh take it one step at a time.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yeah, honestly, the first thing I usually tell people is running socks, because they've usually got the running shoes, but the running socks they will keep running in cotton or other things. And I'm like, I swear to you, I know these socks are expensive, but your feet will thank you. It will make your running shoes feel better as well. Um after that, I mean, now that I have it, I ran six or seven years prior to like Garmin having GPS watches. So like you know, but it is convenient now. However, if you have an Apple Watch, there's no reason you can't keep on using that for quite a while.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

That's for I know they were late, late to the party in terms of offering um more features on the uh on the running.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

It's much better now.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

It's much it's much better now, yeah. Because um I'll never forget the days pre-well, we're not pre-internet, but pre-Gadget. I used to um mark out my route with my bike with the little demand odometer, and then do that. And I said, well, I know that's gonna be three miles or you know, two. I would drive it and then and then exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yep. Things are like, I would drive it, or then um I think map my run started sometime in there too. And so I could go home and then on the map draw it out and figure out how far it had been. Yes. So it was a little more work.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

So I I know um uh we kind of we briefly talked about it in terms of the um and I know something that you touched on on on one of your podcasts about the Strava and the kind of the websites out there. What sort of and I know you sometimes you did say that it can um you you can over-analyse your runs and it can sometimes affect um yourself in terms of your training if you're not using a coach, um, in terms of taking these the advice that's given on these websites, for instance like Strava, that it's you know your fitness level is so-and-so, or you're comparing yourself to other things. What what um you know, what kind of advice would you give to someone to sort of like getting onto something like that?

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yeah, it's an interesting thing because Strava, even Instagram, where a lot of people still post all their runs, and that's great. It is an amazing way to connect and have community and feel like you know other runners, because a lot of us maybe don't have a ton of people around us that run. So I do love that component of it. But I do also frequently see that as soon as we start sharing our data, we start wondering what other people think about it. And so are other people looking at it and thinking I'm slow or well, they don't know that like today was 80 degrees and this and this and this. So then suddenly we're like justifying our easy run to other people instead of just having an easy run that was nice and you know, got us, got us out of the house and away from our phone for a while. So I think it's just kind of taking stock every once in a while of like, am I enjoying

Strava Community Without The Spiral

SPEAKER_01 13:42

this? Am I shifting my training and like making myself run harder because I'm worried about other people's perceptions and why am I judging other people? If I'm not, then they're probably not judging me.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yes. Yeah. And I always think I and I and I got this from from listening to you earlier, is that people maybe will be thinking as to what title should I put, what description should I put. I know I do that in a way only to find out as to what the AI is gonna make out of what of what the description is. Because I'll say it's a really hard run, it was really hot, and I felt a bit tired, that kind of thing. And then the AI will kind of like generate some kind of, you know, uh a summary of of what I'd just written, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah. Yep. It's interesting. And like I said, I think it is great to connect and it's fun to be able to share what we're doing. So it's just sort of having that awareness of like, yeah, am I shifting anything I'm doing because I'm worried about someone else's perception.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah. And also I think the other thing is that unless my heart rate ranges are probably completely weigh out because obviously I'm older now, I haven't had a lactate test done, or had no one, I haven't had a personal trainer sort of figure out as to what my heart rate zones are and doing that kind of thing. So it's probably I think you probably have to take those zones with a little pinch of salt unless you've done had some expert advice maybe gone to someone like you, or maybe gone to a professional in terms of having, you know, a blood test or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah. And I mean, and if you're going based on your watch, we know that the wrist-based readings can be inaccurate. So it is it is a good estimation. And I think for most people, I'm more concerned about looking at their heart rate. Like I said, if they've consistently felt run down or consistently are getting injured, then I want to look at like, all right, are you like pushing too hard all the time?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Um, but otherwise, I don't, I don't think folks have to obsess over it. It has been a useful tool for me. And I find for some runners, it gets them out of their head about pace to look at heart rate instead. Um, but yeah, it's definitely not something that like we need to stress out over.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Where are you with the sort of um, because obviously the two major players are Apple Watch, um, which is kind of very generic watch, and then you've got the Garmin. Whereas um I always tend to get the impression that that's for serious runners or serious people. Um, what what advice would you give?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

So

Heart Rate Zones And Watch Limits

SPEAKER_01 16:35

for a long time, I always recommended getting a Garmin, honestly, over continuing to use Apple. And some of that was because Apple was not as accurate with distance. Um in my testing, Apple was less, even the wristbase was less accurate heart rate once you started running. It was great at walking or resting. But now, honestly, for the majority of runners, it's close enough. So until you are like, I want more of this information around percentage grade or elevation gain. And now Apple actually has some of those things in there too. Um Apple can do a lot of it. So if you just want one watch, cool. Like rock on.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah. Now, in terms of the the mindset, I've got down here the real runner syndrome. What what is that?

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Yeah, I talk about this in my book. Um it's super common. I'll talk to someone, they've run three half marathons. Yeah, but then they'll say, But I'm not a real runner. And I think, what are you what are you talking about? Like, who is a real runner? Yes. Um, and for

Apple Watch Versus Garmin Choices

SPEAKER_01 17:57

me, it is truly like the second you decide to run because you just want to, yeah, you're a real runner. Like, end of story. I don't care what your pace is, I don't care if you run walking. Um and I think it matters. I think it matters. So when you kind of start to take on that label of I'm a runner, it shifts the way you think about what you're doing. I'm a runner, so I'm gonna take the time to foam roll. I'm a runner, so I'm gonna eat before I go out for that run because I know I'll feel better and I'll recover. Um so I do think it matters.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Right. So it's all about sort of um embracing the that identity that you are a runner as just very much as as as anyone else is.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

So absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

And um do you think people can get too wrapped up with running and not find the joy in it? Do you find that with some of the some of your um clients

Real Runner Syndrome Explained

SPEAKER_00 19:07

or or some of the people?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah, definitely we'll have sometimes I think we get hyper fixated on one goal. Like I want to run a four-hour marathon. And even if like we're kind of like, okay, well, right now your training isn't doing your first 10K or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yes, like we are super fixated on it. And so if it's not happening, then it just feels almost earth-shattering. Like, but I'm trying so hard. Like, why isn't this happening? And I think it's because we're putting this timeline on it. So it's not that the goal is impossible, but maybe we just need a little bit more time. Maybe you're working 60 hours a week right now, so it's harder, or you've got a young child and you're not sleeping at night. So maybe it's just that the timing isn't perfect. It's not that there's anything wrong, but we do set these goals that have no particular like logic sometimes. It's just, I want this thing. Um, and so oftentimes I think it's about maybe just resetting the timeline. So we can have the goal, but maybe we just reset the timeline.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Do you think that maybe having I suppose you're saying resetting the timeline, but sometimes

Goals That Steal The Joy

SPEAKER_00 20:33

having these goals may obviously have taken the the joy out of it. And is it worth just revisiting those goals and maybe doing something not as demanding? Or maybe, you know, uh it it may be, let's say, either, do a faster 5K or you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Absolutely. I think it often works really well when we've been maybe chasing something that isn't happening. And so we just sort of like, let's do something completely different. Like if we were going for that fast 5k and it's not working, like let's just do some like longer stuff that has zero pace behind it. Like just enjoy it or go do some trails, like something completely different. So it gets you out of your head about that goal because you can't in any way compare the thing that you're doing with that goal. Um, and this often, especially for folks who've been doing a lot of back to back marathons and are kind of getting frustrated. A lot of times, yeah, if we're like, listen, I want you to just take a little while and yeah, we're gonna do these 5K's and 10K's. And they start to realize like they're having fun again. There's no comparison, maybe volume. Goes down a little and then they feel refreshed to try again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yes. And obviously if they're doing that amount of running, then I would have thought that they're either likely to get injured, because we are at some stage going to get injured. And what how what's the advice you'd give to them, because they've been doing a lot of running, um, to sort of overcome that psychological obstacle?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

That is hard. I'm not gonna lie. Um I think oftentimes that's where sometimes I can start pointing to like the data of what happens during recovery and where recovery is how we're actually taking advantage of all the hard work that we've done. Or looking at, I mean, most of the elites, they'll take an entire month of no running after a marathon. Whereas us average Joes that are still working a full-time job, not having a nutritionist, we're, you know, seven days in, like, can I run? Can I run? So I think it's interesting too to kind of give them that perspective of, hey, having seasons to your training can actually give you better results.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

I mean, I like I we talked about the data thing and everything, but is there a good way of let's say sensing has to, you know, I'm feeling better now, I have more energy now. Um, I don't know if that's something that I don't know, I'm probably putting this across really badly, but there are some days where I feel really good and I'll kind of get uh inspired by seeing someone run, and then I'm thinking, yeah, I could, I could go for a run now. And they are few and far between those things, but it feels like you feel like you've you've just you have this groove and you're kind of at one with yourself. Um do you do you ever get that feeling yourself or even with the runners that you've you've trained?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah, a

Recovery Seasons And Listening In

SPEAKER_01 24:11

hundred percent. Like we're all humans, we're not machines that like march straight on a linear path to progress. So I think there's some days where you're like, man, this is just clicking. And so you do run just a little farther, or you go ahead and throw in a little bit of the speed work. And then the key is if we've done that, we just make adjustments to something else. So we don't do the hard workout because we felt really good and then do the hard workout that was on the calendar, which is mentally where type A runners have a problem because they want to do exactly what's there. But I do think there is a place for allowing that freedom of like, well, how am I feeling today?

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Um, and just not taking it too far, but taking advantage of it when it's like, man, no, I can tell. Like today I'm gonna really nail my speed work. So going for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Because I did a um uh like uh a uh a run. Uh it was a kind of a fun run, 10K fun run, and a couple of weeks ago and I raised money for breast cancer because my my wife's been having treatment for it. So but um and I found it really hard, but I, you know, I achieved the goal. Um leading up to it, I had a cold, so I wasn't feeling great, but I did it, sort of thing. And then I had thought I'd have a week off, and then um last weekend I decided to just go for a 5k. And the first kilometre wasn't great, but then afterwards I just felt sort of so much better. And I think sometimes that just after a while, I've do have had a break. You can uh sometimes just easing into the run. Um, you can having that break, I think, maybe helped um sort of just enjoy the run a lot more.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yeah, it absolutely can. And we're so used to having routine. I think that's part of what makes breaks hard is well, but I've got a routine. I run on these days. Yeah. Um and so I do think that's where the psychological comes in a little bit. But most people feel better after having a break. And like you said, that first run back might feel a little clunky when you kind of start. Yes. Um, but then it's like, oh, okay, yeah, everything actually feels a little better because I gave myself some time.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Right. We're nearly coming to um the end of the podcast, but I got a few sort of quick fire um questions, if that's okay with you. Sure. Um one first thing is what is the one thing every runner should stop doing?

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Stop doing. Um foam rolling your IT band. Um, so you can foam roll around it, but I'm always like, if you have a bruise, you don't press on a bruise. No, you're so it's the same thing. If you're having IT band issues, we don't just want to like dig into it. That's gonna make it worse.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

So just to explain to our listeners, the IT band is where's the IT band?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

So the IT band is basically it runs from your hip to your knee. It's one of the most common places that folks will kind of find like, oh, I'm having some knee pain or hip pain. And it's actually that band running along the outside of your leg.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

And it's usually from glute or hip weakness that's actually causing it. Um, but we have a tendency to just try to kind of beat it into submission.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

All right. Um, is there any one overrate underrated habit of go ahead?

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Underrated hydration while running. Um we talk a lot about taking in the fuel, but the hydration component is equally important. Um, and getting in that sodium will often make folks feel a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Right. Um what's your favorite type of run?

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Um, a long, easy weekend run is that is my happy place for sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Okay.

Quick Fire Tips And Common Mistakes

SPEAKER_00 28:20

All right. Uh and uh where are you? Where are you based?

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I'm in Colorado. So lots of beautiful places to run.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Oh, yeah, lots of trails, I suppose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Um and advice to someone who was gonna run tomorrow. I mean, what should they be thinking about tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Yeah, so if you're just starting out, run walk. It is absolutely the best way to get started. Um, it will make it feel less scary, less intense, less I can't breathe. Um, and doing all of those little things is what's gonna help you come back the next day and the next day and the next day.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

And do you have um a favorite sporting icon or a or a running icon?

SPEAKER_01 29:10

This one is always hard for me because I don't have like a great answer to that. I enjoy a ton of people, and there's a ton of people that have written books and things that I love. Um maybe Bart Yasso, actually. Um, and a lot of folks may not know him that well now, but especially when I started, we he was called the mayor of running.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

He worked at Runner's World. He has uh books out and has done some awesome stuff, but he's just he's a good person. Um, and he really brought a lot of people into the sport.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

So, what sort of one piece of advice would did he sort of, you know, give you? Or um what was the one takeaway that that helped you in terms of your career?

SPEAKER_01 30:00

So he's someone who was a very much an elite runner, yeah, but he just had fun. Like he loved running. Yeah. And it just made it feel exciting and enjoyable to like want to hear his stories. Um and I think I love that too. I want to make sure that I'm consistently showing folks like, no, I genuinely love this. Like I've been doing it a long time, but I still genuinely love it.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Brilliant. Brilliant. Um okay. Well, um, thank you very much, Amanda, for coming on. But before you go, if you'd just like to tell everyone as to where we can find you online.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Absolutely. So runto the finish.com is the website. Run to the finish on pretty much every social platform. I've been around so long, I was able to get it on pretty much every platform. Well done. Yep. And that's where you'll be able to find information on one-on-one coaching or gear reviews. And then we do also have the treadlightly running podcast that I do with another coach.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Great. And that's fantastic. Um, as I said, thank you very much for being on the podcast. If I'd like to stay on after we finished, uh it's been been a wealth of information. We could have chatted a lot more about other things, but I know we've got, you know, time is of the essence. And um it's as I said, you have a ton of information on the website, you know, going from you know, core exercises to naught to 5k, 10k, different distance training plans. Um, and I'm sure, you know, whoever, whatever uh level you are, you'll find something in there on the website. If not, go to um after you listen to this podcast, go to their podcast. That kind of thing. Okay. I'd like to say goodbye from Amanda. Um, thanks for listening to the podcast, and goodbye from me, Brian Patterson, and uh hope you enjoy listening. So cheers. Bye bye.