SPEAKER_00 0:00

So

Welcome And Part Two Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:01

you're thinking about running, but not sure how to take the first step? My name is Brian Patterson, and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's ROM pod. Welcome back to Brian's Run Pod, and it's me, your host, Brian Patterson, on some more hints and tips about running. Continuing our conversation with Lauren Ganym, a registered dietitian, on how we can learn about making simple, sensible nutritional choices to enhance our running. In this episode, we cover on how low energy availability slows metabolism and switches off non-essential systems. We talk about rebuilding health by gradually eating enough and letting the body regulate again. And also why hard training on too little food raises heart rate and fatigue. Plus, we cover so much more. But if you haven't listened to part one, then please do go back in our catalogue and give that a listen. So without further ado, let's get into it. I

How Underfueling Changes The Body

SPEAKER_00 1:17

mean, just going back in terms of uh underfueling, impact does that have on your on your body? I mean, well, I know we've it's it kind of I think you've you've talked about maybe, or it can have an impact in terms of your metabolism and gut health and and your hormones. Could you just sort of sort of expand on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yes. So there is a whole cascade, it's basically a whole hormone cascade that happens when you're not eating enough. Your body's job, it wants to keep you alive. Um, it's basically survival, right? It wants to keep you alive. So there is a base amount of energy that your body needs to do. So your metabolism is just a fancy name for the chemical processes that are your body does.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

So that's going to essentially kind of slow down. And what happens is it kind of starts with the thyroid. So thyroid hormone production is going to slow down, and then eventually it's going to slow down your um the sex production of the sex hormone production. So it's going to be low libido for men and women.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Our estrogen will go down, men's testosterone will decrease, infertility long term on both sides of the point. Um, that's gonna be also missing periods, irregular periods for women. And then yet um hunger levels will initially increase. Then they'll kind of, if it's really long term, you won't inherently feel the hunger so much anymore, but your body's gonna be in almost a you can call it a starvation state, whatever you want to call it. Some people used to say starvation mode. That's hit or miss with that term, but essentially that's kind of what's happening. And then you're gonna have your cortisol is gonna go up, your bone density is going to go down, bone reformation is going to go down. It's essentially your body's turning off your digestion's gonna slow down, and that's where constantly slowing down everything that's not essential to survival. You don't need to reproduce to live, you know, that kind of thing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Right. Okay. But that's obviously quite an extreme case when you're going, all these things are kind of like turning off.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

So if you're at the point where you've kind of like infertility, that's been quite long term initially, that will happen. Um like the slowing down of the metabolism will happen faster than something like that. But yes, it's it's a long term, it's not like a week-long thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Yeah. And it's if you're at the same, if you're, you know, running, um, doing exercise, either maybe you've kind of got that addiction, you know, runner's addiction to exercise or that kind of thing, then that just is going to exacerbate the problem, as it were.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yeah, your heart rate will probably be higher on runs than it even at the same pace than normal. You'll be tired, brain fog, it like it's everything. It's a whole cascade.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Right. Okay. So,

Rebuilding Health By Eating Enough

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I mean, in your experience, I mean, have you come across sort of clients like that? Or, you know, is there, I mean, um obviously I know from your own experience, um, what was the way do you think? I mean, obviously, people might need to see a doctor, um, and then maybe a dietitian, but what's kind of a way of coming out of that?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Um Yeah. The good news is that's all reversible, right? None of that is forever. So it really it's a matter of s starting to eat enough. It really is just starting to eat enough slowly. You don't have to do it all at once, but starting to eat enough, and eventually your body will get to the point where it doesn't it knows it's getting enough food, and then you'll get your pure bag, everything will kind of start to, it's a it's not going to be overnight, but everything will start to regulate itself.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Right. And

Emotional Eating And Runner Body Image

SPEAKER_00 4:54

that kind of leads me on to sort of the psychological side of eating, sort of what the because we are very emotional beings, as it were. I know I'm I do comfort eating, um, you know, and it's very um, I think most of us do. Can you sort of go, you know, talk about what are the sort of like emotional patterns behind eating?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

A lot of times um it can be if it's related to body, I mean, eating and the body is kind of like an emotional thing for anybody, regardless. There's emotions tied to it some way or another. So the emotional eating, I still honestly emotional eating if I'm stressed, if I'm sad, food's usually for some people, it's either you want to keep eating, for other people, they totally lose their appetite. It's either one end of the spectrum that you're on in that realm. Um that plays a role. And for some of it, it's food can be really grounding. Anything that brings you back in your body can be really grounding. So it's like food, you're focused on your body, exercise, you're focused on your body. So I I, this is just me from what I've seen, but I feel like, you know, you go to eat something and that can help. That can like help you kind of get grounded back into yourself if you're really stressed or highly emotional. It's almost like we don't stop from there and then we keep eating. And some people it turns into, you know, a whole binge, some people it doesn't, but it's just like I'll if I find myself going to overeat, I'm like, what am I feeling that I don't realize? Because sometimes it really is that, and it's almost like you try to. Some people I think if you don't want to feel what you're feeling, you try to bury it without even consciousness. Right of that. Um, and other people, it's just you don't know how to handle the emotions, so you just keep going, and that's kind of your go-to.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

And also that kind of has a link to, you know, what we were talking about in terms of underfueling, um, it works the same way. So there may be psychological uh reasons behind why you're underfueling. So, like you said, if you are um sad or whatever, you know, if there's something in your background, that then that that that obviously that may need to be looked at before, you know, it's not just you know just a question of eating more, but obviously there may be other reasons for that.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, yeah. If it's genuinely like some sort of body image eating issue that's going on, that's usually there's so much behind that, and that's usually an expression of what's actually going on. So that can look like usually there's perfectionism behind that, and not outward, but like perfectionism internally in how in what you look like, how you perform, and it and it's food is one thing you can control. It is a control thing that happens, and really at the bottom it ends up being self-worth, lack thereof, self-love. Yes. It really is at the deep core, and it's almost being expressed through the body, through food, and it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, so lack of self-confidence, yeah, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah. Especially with runners, because it's the you are the sport. It's not like there's a ball that people are paying attention to that you're throwing around. You are the sport, and there's these stereotype of I don't know, I think that's changed. When I was younger, at least the stereotype of runners are very thin and you have to look this way, and that's a lot of pressure. And if you compete, the uniforms are always so tight and like tiny, and so there's a lot of to look a certain way too. So it comes about from a bunch.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yeah. Do you think that's that kind of body image has changed compared to I don't know, 20, 30 years ago?

SPEAKER_01 8:34

I think it's maybe gotten better because we are seeing through online that bodies can athlete bodies can look different and you don't have to be really skinny. So I mean, I hope I'm not directly in the I'm a runner still, but I'm not in the world where it's like affects me like that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

No, no, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

So I hope that it's changed for some people, but there probably still are the uniforms are still the uniforms. I feel like they keep getting tinier, especially for running. So that's probably that's probably not gotten much better. And you know, it's you're not just in that uniform, you're also running around in it, which is the most unflattering position of them all to be in. So that is for a lot of people, that's a big piece of it. It's stressful.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah.

East Vs West Food Mindsets

SPEAKER_00 9:17

So as we could tell by your accent, you're based in the US, although I know you have traveled around and so you experienced different approaches to diet uh around the world. Um but I I just like to sort of tap into um as per the outline that I sent you in terms of sort of East versus West. Is there a marked difference between the approaches um between sort of like how um Asian pe I know people might approach diets compared to let's say, you know, uh approach terms of the West as well?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah. From what I've seen, yes. I've studied Chinese medicine a little bit, so I I can't talk for them, but I can talk to what I've gotten from that. Um they they uh seem to approach it honestly. I'd almost say they're more body-led than than the Western side is, or we are, I am. Okay, okay so they focus more on um supporting the different states of the body through the different seasons, and they focus on, you know, if you live in a damp environment and you're experiencing these, it might be excess dampness and what foods to eat to kind of get rid of that. It's almost more in tune with the states of the body versus I think in the Western, I mean, we are very we are a little more of a pill-happy society, both in terms of pharmaceuticals and supplements. We just love that whole thing. So it's more that versus almost sitting with your body, what is my body asking, and then moving accordingly and eating with the seasons.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

There's there's less of eating in tune with the body, with nature, from what I do because I know I I know you said before we started the podcast that you you've been in Italy and you walked to Sweden, that kind of thing. Do you think um and it's something that I kind of come across is when I watch cooking programmes, how you know you get chefs who are always serving or creating recipes according to the seasons? I mean, we my wife my wife has an allotment, um, and so we're kind of reaping the benefits of fresh tomatoes, courgettes, that kind of thing. So we're we're quite lucky like that. So do you think that's something that we should be, you know, a bit more educated about in the West? Um, you know, if you are going out to the shops, be educated in terms as to what is in season.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

I think it would help. The thing is not everyone has inherently if you grow up in an environment that's pretty chronically cold or like really long winters, yeah, what's in store, you're not always gonna have being what's in season isn't really gonna be a thing for you as much that you're paying attention to. Yeah. But I think it could be beneficial. I mean, I have the belief that what like the foods that are produced in the seasons are in that season for a reason. So if you think of like summer, there's gonna be more melons, more things that are um like water dense, those water dense fruits because it's hotter outside. So things along those lines, I do think it serves its purpose. Or like in the winter, um, you might have more squash, heavier, starch, denser foods for energy purposes, which we don't inherently it's a little different now. It's not like we're storing for the winter, but that is like energy purposes, more dense foods to help get you through the winter and keep you going for a while, versus the more hydrating foods in the summer. So I do think it could be beneficial. Um, not everybody has the access, so I'm like even before worrying about seasonal, if you can get fresh, if you have farm fresh, that is like the win. That's a really big win. That's a big piece, but at least working on whole food sources in general. So fruits, veggies, and then worry about seasonal later.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah. I know this isn't a food strass, nutritional food slash nutritional podcast, but I mean, I mean it's this is for for runners, but I'd just be interested in times what's the the the uh the situation like in the US? I mean, does it depend, is it state to state? It depends in terms of food education or or can you is it still is it quite good or is it poor? I don't know. Can you give us an idea as to what it's like then?

SPEAKER_01 13:43

We don't

Food Education And Access Problems

SPEAKER_01 13:44

really get it, to be honest with you. I don't think um because I I took nutrition courses, you know. I did this for my like my major, my career. Otherwise, you don't really there's health classes in high school, but that is from what I remember, it was the most basic. I don't even it was like don't eat fast food. That's all I remember.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Right, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

I really don't think there's much. Anything that people have learned, I really feel like has been more self-taught than anything else. If that's changed and like the younger, you know, that's great, but not that I don't know of at all.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Do you think there's a problem with obesity in the US compared to, let's say, other countries that you've been to? Or or is it you think it's just I've seen it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I guess I guess I have seen it more here. I honestly don't inherently look for that when I'm out. But I do believe access to fresh quality food is an issue in a lot of areas here. There are some places where it's abundant. Some spots of a city could have farm fresh food available, and then other spots have like absolutely nothing available to them. So I think that's an issue. And it'll be like a really heavy, dense, fast food region versus you can have two states completely different areas that are completely different for what you have. That's definitely an issue. I would like people to be a little more we're getting better on um, I think as a whole, there's a lot of farms that will now like ship to you, like better on access to that kind of food.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

But it the problem partly is you can be in like New York, Boston, Chicago, where you're walking. You don't need a car, you walk everywhere. But is is a pretty like you car dependent country in general. Yeah. So you can go a whole day, like here where I am right now. If I didn't actually take myself on a walk, I could go an entire day without walking at all. So that's where I think there's a bit of an issue there because you drive, go to work, sit all day and help. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know um over here it tends to be that those who aren't as affluent or who are um, you know, do uh have money concerns, that kind of thing, don't have a maybe the right education. And you know, good food, you know, like the vegetables, does tend to cost more sort of thing. So that's why maybe they might have to revert to the fast food, junk food, or alternatives, the not so good alternatives. So, you know, I think it's just a question of, you know, getting either the the supermarkets, I mean, I know this is kind of you know putting the world to rise to a certain extent, but getting them to um make it more affordable. Um and therefore, you know, improving nutrition for those that aren't able to afford it.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah. That's that's the piece too, because it's usually the cheapest options aren't always the healthiest.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Right. What

Practical Fuel And Hydration Basics

SPEAKER_00 16:51

do you think would be I know we kind of touched on it a little bit in terms of you know practical takeaways for new runners, um, if we can give a sort of like a very generic um top five things, or I don't know, what what we can do to start us on the road to becoming to to help us have a much more better educ uh education in terms of nutrition to help our running.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yes. First thing I'll say is I think the biggest understanding is that um when you're looking at what you're going to eat, instead of because if you're sometimes when people try to be healthy, they're like, what can I take away from this? What do I need to remove?

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Whether it's health, weight loss, whatever it is, instead look at your plate like, okay, what can I add to this to make it more important for my body more of what it needs? That's a big piece. Sometimes that like flips things for people. Um other thing is kind of the one I mentioned where if give your body what it needs to eat every time you sit down for a meal, it doesn't have to be snacks, but for a meal, having all those components. Um runs, if you are making sure you're fueled enough prior to your run. So if you had a meal two hours before, you're fine, you don't need to eat again. But if you haven't had anything in hours, you're you're gonna want something beforehand, even if it's something small. And then I actually think hydration is a big piece of this too, because dehydration in general almost would feel the same way that um not enough, not having enough food would feel your heart rate's gonna go faster, you're gonna get headaches. That could take you out for a whole day if you run dehydrated. So enough electrolytes you should be getting enough of if you're eating the right foods. Um but the water in general is the piece. Make sure you're getting enough of that.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

And I know people use in the good last 10, 15 years, sort of like carbohydrates have been a bit of a bad bad word, but it it is it is so important as as part of you know fueling. Um it's not just about the protein, which help rebuild the muscles, but it's about also about the carbohydrates as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah. The carbs are like you know, we've said the carbs are the main energy source. So if you think of um carbs, energy, and then your protein rebuilds repairs. So before your run, carbs, after your run, carbs and protein. Carbs to replenish what you've used, protein to repair and rebuild. That's kind of like an easy way to think about it. And if you're doing that, you're in a pretty good spot.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Okay. And we're looking at sort of more complex carbs like rice potatoes, that that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yes, that would be the before the run, you can do the simple. You can do the rice cakes, the white bread, whatever, because that's a quick source of energy. After the run, usually that's where complex because that's going to have more fiber. Complex is literally more complex, it just has more fiber, more nutrients in it than the simple carbs would.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Great, great. Wow. Uh, we're coming up to nearly 45 minutes. So thank you. But you've been a great source of information. So I just wanted to find out as to if there's anything, you know, I think you've you've you've told us that obviously it's basically not to eat less, but trust try to maybe expand your diet and to, you know, offer, let's say, uh a better variety in terms of what people should be taking in to help with with their running. And also, you know, I think we've touched on in terms of, you know, you know, the uh sort of the psychological side of of having having um of of eating in terms of runners, and you know, then we talked about the east and east and west, how other countries maybe do it differently. Is there anything we we haven't touched on that you'd like to add to what we've what we've said already?

Clear Signs You’re Underfueling

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Um I guess one thing, if you're trying to figure out, am I even eating enough? Other than, yes, of course, my thing of listen to your body, see what it's saying, that's easier said than done. So it would be if you want like concrete signs that you're not eating enough, some would be um if you feel like you're getting cold often, that's a um the first thing that would happen, even if it's just like one or two days of not eating enough, would be sleep. You might wake up in the middle of the night, you might toss and turn, your sleep is going to be a lot worse and a lot harder. So if you find that being, or if you wake up in the middle of the night starving, that's an easy one to look at. Um brain fog, you feel like you can't concentrate, or you feel like every time you sit down, you're kind of like starting to doze off and fall asleep. You're probably that either could be you haven't slept, or you're not eating if you know you've been sleeping.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Um more obvious would be like irregular periods for women. Um even a higher heart rate in general.

unknown 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Um, let me think. Anything along those lines.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Then there's one more thing I was gonna ask you about. Is that better anyway?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

That's really that's it. Those are kind of the basics of what to pay attention to to or to give. Yourself some signs, even your nails breaking easier than normal, all of that.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah. There's a couple of things I can ask you. What's

GLP-1 Weight Loss Drugs Concerns

SPEAKER_00 22:07

your opinion about sort of these drugs this kind of drug for weight loss? The Netherlands ones? To me, it seems to be too readily available. It's kind of like people who don't really need to are taking it when really it's people who who are kind of their BMI, you know, is is on the obesity side, then it's it's an A to them. But it seems I have um known friends who who have taken it. And I was thinking, do they really need to do it?

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, I I agree. It is readily available to people that don't need it. And what I've seen them, there are people that I know with eating disorders that they're giving it to, and it's just fewer.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

No. Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

People that aren't even even considered overweight at all, that they're just I mean, it's like they're throwing it out like candy, and that's where it's become an issue. There are some people where like they're they really need it and it's been helpful and they want to get off and you know, they've tried everything, sure, or some people that need it for health reasons, of course.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

But otherwise it really I've forgotten the name of the the drug you could probably The GLP ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Um those are it's really I have a I have a love hate with them. I have clients that come to me on it and I I help them through it. But there's a lot that I've seen out there where I could probably walk into a place and they give it to me, which they shouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

I know.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

So that's become a big issue.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah. Do you think that I know 20 could it be go down that kind of opioid crisis type of situation? Or is that something am I kind of being a bit too extreme there? So because I know the opioid crisis was uh I know you know it it it was very much feeding on those that were working in working in working class environments and they were going, you know, I know it was going working where they were, you know, them they were m doing manual labor and they were hurting and and therefore they were having to take a poise to get over the um but you do do you see that happening in the future with on on this side?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

No, I think the more the route that this would probably go is um it more like the eating disorder route. I actually think it can cause they're giving it to people that already have it, so it's just exacerbating that issue, but I think it could cause it because really a lot of people that are on it, it's just reducing their appetite and they're eating a lot less. And some of them aren't even eating enough for what their body needs, and that's why like some people that come to me on it, I help them through it, and we're like actively, I'm like, you've gotta be, you've gotta eat a little bit more of this, that. So you know they have an advantage if they're using somebody, but most people aren't. So I do think and then I've had people that went on it, went off it, gained all the way back, went on it again, yes, this also cycle.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah, so I do see that becoming an issue for some people, it messes up their gut. That's not everybody, but yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Yeah, yeah. And the other thing I was going to ask you about is that um, just to to come off the that medication subject is basically about sort of certain times of the year.

Seasonal Eating Without Overthinking

SPEAKER_00 25:31

So let's say we're in the summer now, so you're gonna be eating sort of more salads. You know, it's kind of easier to control your sort of dietary. Uh whereas when you're going into the winter, you tend to be eating more um no different types of foods. Um, should that really be a an issue, let's say, if you are running, or you know, is it just a question of just um it's the same sort of types of rules that we just talked about in the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah, I think it's the same type of rules. I think because even like listening to that is better than anything. Like, right in the winter, I do not want a salad. The salad is the last thing I've got to do.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

No, no, no. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Things like that, and I'm still getting my vegetables in. I'm just cooking everything. Everything's warm issues. Um and that's fine. So long as you're still hitting, because even in a salad, you want to make sure you're getting enough. You can have a salad and it has nothing to it. So so long as it's enough and it's the right types of foods, that should be fine.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Great. Well,

Where To Find Lauren And Wrap

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Lauren, um, I just want to say a big thank you to coming onto the podcast. Who just likes to stick around after we say goodbye? But um where can we reach you or where can we see you online? I understand you are on Instagram. Um do you have a website or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yes, it's actually very easy to find me because everything is just my name. So my Instagram is just at Lauren Ganem and my website is just laurenganum.com. So if you know my name, you can find me anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Anyway, okay. Yeah. That's brilliant. That's fantastic. Okay, I'd just like to say thank you very much to Laura for coming on to the podcast. Um, she's given a wealth of information. And um I'd like to say thank you very much for listening and I'd say goodbye from Lauren and goodbye from me.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Thank you.