Welcome And Trail Running Preview

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So you're thinking about running, but not sure how to take the first step? My name is Brian Patterson, and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's ROM pod.

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I think that for me, trail running is all about the love of outdoors. You've got to go into it with the mindset that you are there to enjoy it. So if you want to stop and swim in a river, do it. You're out there to find, you're out there to experience it. Definitely, like I said, most places have got quite quite easy trail runs, local trail runs, and trail communities as well. The community in South Africa is incredible. So very often you'll go from road to trail, and and very often people come back to me and say, Well, wow, those people are such nice people today.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Well, welcome to Brian's Run Potter. It's me, your host, Brian Patterson, here to talk to you about some hints and tips about running. Well, there are some highlights from part two of my chat with Andrew Erasmus. I hope I've got the surname there right. Now in the second part of my chat, we started talking about wildlife there and if there might be a concern in that part of the world if you're doing trail running. So this episode is part of my trail running mini series. So if you haven't listened to any of them, then please do go back to my catalogue and give them a listen. So without further ado, let's get into it.

Wildlife Risks And Simple Safety

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Now you're in South Africa, so do we have to think about wildlife depending on I mean I don't think that it's a massive problem for us out here.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

If you you're running in game reserves, they generally have game rangers that are going to be watching out for you.

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Yeah.

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Other than that, I mean we've got baboons and things like that in the mountains, but they're generally stayed to themselves.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

So I mean, snakes. Snakes are always a bit of a problem, but I've seen a couple, but they've they've never really been a massive issue, and I don't know of any trail runners that have actually ever been bitten by snakes.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Oh, okay. But obviously you've like you said, it's it's always too good to be prepared to have some kind of first aid kit or even going with someone to have may have some basic first aid knowledge, as it were.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

I think I mean if you if you can spend time on the trails with your friends, it's also always good to share those experiences. So if you can run with someone else, definitely run with someone else. And I mean if you are in trouble, it's it's it's gonna be help save your life if you get stuck in that horrible situation.

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Yeah.

Nutrition Basics For Long Trails

SPEAKER_02 2:50

So on the nutrition side, if you're looking when you're doing trail runnings, let's say you've got into it and you're looking to do there are quite extensive distances, 30, 50k or plus or whatever. What things do we need to be looking out for on the nutrition side?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

I mean, nutrition is quite a tricky one. We all we all follow the nutritionists that are telling you you should be getting 60 to 90 grams of carbs in per hour and you should maybe be splitting your nutrition and your hydration. I find that every athlete's different.

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Yeah.

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We'll try a number of different nutrition strategies, and when we're doing our our bulk training, they'll be testing all of that to see that they are happy with it, that it's going down, and then from there test to see how many grams of carbs they can get in, and that they actually even enjoy getting that type of food in. On some of the longer races, I did a hundred mile with one of my athletes last weekend, and I think he must have had about 30 pancakes. He was really eating anything he could get his his hands on, which was actually fantastic to see because as long as he's eating, we'll keep moving forward. I think it is it really does come down to each person and what they enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

So when when you're eating, is it you you're eating at a station and you stop to eat, or can you I mean, what's the strategy there in terms of getting nutrients? Can you get fluids or or f food while you're moving?

SPEAKER_01 4:15

So very often in the longer races you have to have hydration packs. So in the hydration packs, you'll have your two water bottles and you keep your gels and your bars, all that type of stuff. And then while while I'm racing, I'll set an alarm on my watch and and keep taking in gels, keep taking in bars because I know that that food is getting in. But generally the aid stations are 16 to 20 kilometers apart apart in longer races. And when you're going through the aid stations, there's other options for food of sandwiches or potatoes or sweets, all that type of stuff is a variety, and you can you know grab that type of stuff, get that in to change things up a bit, but keep sticking to your nutrition plan that you've worked on in your training.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Right. Okay. The new new nutrition plan is as important as doing the training itself.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Probably if not more important. Yeah, I've seen so many people in races that train for months and months and months for races and they don't have a proper nutrition plan, and halfway through their race everything falls apart, and there was no point. Do all that training if you don't you're not fueling your body. So super, super important.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

So is that something that you know you you one would talk to with an experienced coach and say, well, we break down the race into so-and-so pexed segments, and and this is what this is the strategy for for taking your gels or your bars or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yes. I actually chat to my athletes and I'll say to them, I will work through the nutrition through the training process. And in longer races, we'll break it down into segments of the race and say, for these 20 kilometers, I want you to have a packet waiting for you that someone can give to you at this aid station with your nutrition to go from here to there. And that makes them very aware of the food that they're taking in, so that then if they arrive at the next aid station, they haven't consumed the food that they are expecting to consume. But we can can look at it and look, you you've missed two gels, you haven't eaten your bar, you've only got half your juice in.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah.

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Let's take a little bit of time to focus here, make sure that you you're actually thinking about things so that you don't get too ahead of yourself and before you know it, you're sitting on a rock somewhere wondering what went wrong, but all the food's still in your pack and you haven't been eating it. Breaking those down into segments of a race highlights what you're getting in, what you're not getting in, and allows you to adjust your your nutrition strategy according to that you are in the race.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Why do people make that mistake that they're not taking in the new well not that they're not taking in the new the rather the right nutrition? Is it because they think it's slowing them down or is that they forget?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

I think very often people forget, they're caught up in the race. I see it often with the guys in the front of races where you know you you're so involved in a bit of a tussle up front that you you're not taking the stuff in because you're more focused on the race. And in the middle of the field, very often people are getting caught up because they they're not expecting a climb or something like that. They arrive at like, I should be eating now. But I'm just not I'm not gonna do it now. I'll do it now because right now it's uncomfortable. So I'll I'll save this food for later and they end up not getting it in.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

I mean, when they mean uncomfortable, what does it mean? Like they're getting like a muscle cramps or something like that. Well not muscle cramps, I mean stomach cramps, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

For instance, you've got a gel that you need to get in, but at the time that you're supposed to take the gel, you arrive at a big climb or a very technical descent, uh, and your focus shifts from eating onto the trails. So you you end up tucking that gel away, thinking I'll eat it uh in ten minutes when I finish this descent, but you get to the bottom of the descent and you forget that you haven't had your gel. And you know, that it combinates to not getting enough food in and and hitting a wall.

Avoiding The Bonk And Forgetting Fuel

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Moving on to terms of kind of your mindset, because for beginners, it's obviously a very different beast compared to, let's say, for for road runnings. Do you give, as they say, new people to the sport that a way of them getting into the zone of approaching trail running? How and how would you do that?

SPEAKER_01 8:20

I think that for me, trail running is all about the love of outdoors. But you've got to go into it with the mindset that you are there to enjoy it. I'm all for people racing for podiums and achieving goals and very keen to help people do that. But at the same time, there still needs to be that love for for the outdoors, for nature, for a little bit of maybe getting caught in a rainstorm or a hail storm or or all the types of things that nature can throw at you. You you do have to just look at it and and be very keen to be out there and enjoy that.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

And is it about enjoying the moment, not about your competing within the race?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Definitely, definitely. I mean, I've told some of my athletes that if you want to stop and swim on a river, do it. You're out there to fun, you're out there to experience it. You've you've very often you've travelled a long way to get to such a beautiful place. But if you're not up in the front racing and you're really there to enjoy it, then enjoy every moment. So if you want to sit on a rock and and eat some sweets, do that. Make the best of it and and make some stories, take some pictures, and really take everything in.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yeah. I've I've heard things described by that as cool and making memories.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Definitely. Make memories. Meet people. Yes. New friends.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

So when when there are problems, then

Mindset For Joy And Memories

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because like you said, you've you've trained for the event, they've they've spoken to, let's say, a coach like yourself, but when there are when there are problems, what's the mental approach to overcoming these problems? What is this something that maybe you would talk to Len about in trying to problem solve various issues that may arise during the race, or if they do arise?

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Definitely. I mean, quite a few of the athletes that I train are are running longer distances, and it's almost expected that it's not going to go to plan. So in in the build-up to the race, we'll we'll set up a couple of bigger weekends where they'll run Friday, Saturday, and Sunday on tired legs and test nutrition, try to get them onto a route that's going to be very similar to the race route, and try run everything so that mentally they prepared for their nutrition, mentally they prepared because now they're on tired legs, and mentally they prepared because in the training run, you're not as locked in as focused. So things that are going to go wrong are going to start going wrong. And you're going to start to problem solve in your training. And it also mentally prepares you so that you know you've been through that and you can see that you can carry on going. You maybe have to sit down for 10 minutes and get some more food in or problem solve while you're out there. And mentally you are ready for anything that the race can throw at you. I think it definitely comes down to the training and race-specific training so that you are adapted to the terrain and mentally ready for whatever comes your way.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Right. Okay. Is it is a lot of this and doing something like that to rehearsing it is a way of building confidence?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Definitely. I mean, if if you've been through a training run that's gone badly and you've you've mismanaged all your your nutrition, you know how bad it feels, but you also know that you can work through that and carry on. And if you make the same mistakes in the race, which we're hoping you don't, you'll then know that you can work through it and you you'll you'll get past it. I mean, I've I've had friends who've done races and 100 milers and halfway through they've pulled out because they say they couldn't keep anything down and they were feeling nauseous and everything was going terribly. They pull out of the race before they even get to halfway. And 20 minutes, 30 minutes later, they're sitting in a car eating a pizza feeling

Problem Solving When Things Go Wrong

SPEAKER_01 11:52

fine. And say, Let me that why don't you sit on the side of the road for 20 minutes and calm yourself down? Give yourself a pet talk. And you've got more than enough time. You're putting pressure on yourself, feeling like you need to sort everything out now. You don't, you've got time. Take it in, relax, and you can get through it. So most people that do use that approach end up recovering nicely, settling in, and actually enjoying the rest of the race.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Right. Have there been moments in your trail running career where you've kind of felt, oh my gosh, I'm not going to finish this. And then you've kind of reset yourself and then you kind of got going again?

SPEAKER_01 12:29

I mean, I've had some terrible races that I've had pacers and seconders that wouldn't let me pull out. One of my races, one of my my race number actually got mixed up with another guy by the name of Andrew.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

And he was in last place, and everyone was tracking me and thought that I was in last place. So when I I was I had a a a bit of a tummy bug and I was ready to pull out, and I ended up coming into the aid station, I don't know, about 10th or 12th position, and everyone was so excited to see me because they thought they thought I was in 100th position at the back. When I came into the aid station and said, pshew, I'm done. They you know they'd had so much energy going, well, no, you can't be done. You thought you were lost, you've got to keep going. And that helped me fight through it, and and it was a very, very tough day out, but I managed to get through it, fight through the field, and and actually did very well at the end.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Right. Oh, okay, okay. And do you think that's kind of like a lesson that's you know going forward for you?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

I think it definitely helps that I've been through some some difficult spots and fought through them to be able to advise athletes on you might think that it's tough right now and you might want to put out, but in 20 minutes, 30 minutes time, you'll be feeling a lot better and keep chipping away at it. I've been there, I understand it, and I know you can carry on. It it definitely helps.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Going back to those particularly looking to to start out, so you so from what you were saying is just try out wherever you are in the world, whoever's listening, and to try out any local trail runs and then just to do very shorter distances and then give it a go.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Definitely. Like I said, most places have got quite quite easy trail runs, local trail runs and trail communities as well. So you can you can join people, ask questions, find out about the races, and yeah, I've got I mean a 5k five kilometer trail run is a nice entry-level one. You go see if you like it. I mean, the community in South Africa is incredible. So very often you'll go from road to trail, and and very often people come back to me and say, Well, wow, those people are such nice people. Everyone wanted to chat. That was fantastic, Jack. So, not not saying that roadrunners aren't friendly, they are, but they they're very serious at the start of a race, whereas trail runners seem to be a lot more relaxed at the start of the race and and therefore a vibe.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

So there's like a s like a community there. Andrew, it's although I know we had a few technical difficulties, but we obviously it's been wonderful talking to you. Is there anything else that for my particular audience that we haven't covered that you know we can s like be a good introduction for those looking to from you know looking to start the sport? Is there anything else that be it on the strength side or even on the nutrition side or anything else that you feel would be applicable?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I think that uh trail running is is a lifestyle. Um for me and for a lot of people that I know. It's a very healthy lifestyle that I think is fantastic. I think that we we're all moving in in that direction at the moment where they're there tens of thousands of people signing up for races all over the world, all chasing that uh longevity. And I feel that you know being outside in the sunshine on the trails with rivers and trees and flowers and animals and is really adding adding a lot of value to life. I think that you know you can go in there to race, but as long as you're taking out the uh the benefits and really enjoying it, I think that that's that's a big, big key for me. It's enjoying time on the trails.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Especially with this explosion of ultrarunning, why not take it that next step and do trail running and enjoy the environment at the same time?

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Definitely. I mean, if that's a 5k, that's fantastic. If it's a 20k or a 40k or a hundred mile or a 200 mila, I I say as many people as possible should be getting off their couches, get outside, take their families, and be outdoors and enjoy enjoy a healthy lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Get off screen.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Definitely. Definitely.

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What is there any p one particular mistake you see, big mistake or a general mistake that you see beginners make when they come into a sense?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

What what definitely my biggest mistake that I see in a lot of athletes that are coming through is that they don't

Beginner Mistakes Rest And Easy Runs

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ever take rest days and allow your bodies to recover.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Good point.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

And and their easy runs are never really easy. So very often I'll I'll take on athletes and I'll have a look at their training and they'll say, No, like I'm so tired. I I can't keep up with this anymore. And you have a look at their training, and their easy runs, they're running slightly slower than their race pace. And once you start breaking it down and explaining that your easy runs must be easy, recovery days must be recovery runs, all of a sudden they start realizing that the structure in their programs makes a lot more sense, that the harder sessions can really be hard, but the easy sessions really need to be easy. That makes a massive difference to a lot of athletes.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

In terms I know every athlete is different for you and they would have different needs, but in terms of let's say we can't all have Andrew in our life. So for instance, if we were to break it down over a week, would 80% of the runs that we do within that week would they be kind of Z uh easy recovery runs and then the 20% be maybe more specific intervals or that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yes. As an entry-level base, starting off with doing you know one or two sessions a week that are are going to be specifically towards your speed work or your kill work, a long run on weekends, which is is generally relatively easy, but a long run, and maybe squeezing a a recovery run in the middle of the week to you know tick the legs over, make sure the body's recovering, and allow yourself to recover before you do another quality session. So two quality sessions generally, a long run and a recovery run are the very basic principle of a lot of programs.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

So on the the the recovery in the long run, is that very different paces, I mean, and distances? So obviously the long run is gonna be a lot longer, but on the recovery run, is it a case of you know having a relaxed run, but as a slower, you know, a pace a little bit faster than on the long run?

SPEAKER_01 18:53

So recovery runs generally 45 minutes, super easy, nice to go running with friend, have good solid conversation. Whereas your longer runs, your long runs are gonna adapt according to how far you are in your program and what you're training for. So that that they might be slightly faster than your your recovery runs, but also in a nice, comfortable type of pace, in some instances it might turn into you know progression run or or add things into that to adapt for your specific races.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

It's a generally pretty easy.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Yeah.

Weekly Structure And Trail Running Lifestyle

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I did run uh the Fish River Canyon in uh in Namibia, out of South Africa, so still in Africa though. And that was an absolutely incredible experience, second largest canyon in the world, and super remote, wild horses. And when you're out there, you were you really were out there by yourself. Some people, it was a hundred kilometre race, some people took 16 hours, and the stories of being under the stars running through this canyon was it was really uh something to remember.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

That must be that must be quite something. So if if if if that doesn't attract or entice people into the sport, I don't know what we'll say. I'd want to say, Andrew, I'd want to say thank you very much for agreeing to come onto the podcast. I think you've given us a flavour about what trail running is. And if anyone is going to South Africa, then obviously definitely look up your local trail runs because it sounds to me that you know this looks really exciting. But as I said, I'm sure well wherever you are in the world, there's going to be trail runs anyway. Yeah, definitely. So just definitely look at that.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

If you're coming out, and if you're coming out to South Africa, let me know. I'm I'm based in KwaZulu-Natel, but anywhere in South Africa, and I can also try to point you in the right direction, chat to the local trail community, and uh travel them out some people to take out on some adventures.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Brilliant. Where can we reach you online if you are?

SPEAKER_01 20:45

So Run Wild Coaching on Instagram or Andrew underscore erasmus2, both Instagram accounts, Facebook Andrew Erasmus. Yeah. And you could drop me a message and I'm happy to chat. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Excellent. Okay. Thank you very much for coming on on the podcast. And I want to say I've I've really uh appreciated and been educating myself, and obviously I hope everyone is listening, is educating themselves about trail running. Is it's something that I wasn't aware of, didn't know a lot about beforehand, but I think I do know a little bit now. But I'd like to say goodbye. If Andrew would like to stick around afterwards, that'd be wonderful after we say goodbye. But I'd like to say goodbye from Andrew, and I'd like to say goodbye from myself, Brian Patterson. Thank you very much for listening. And if you want to learn more about trail running, I do have some other podcasts which are looking at this particular sport and anything else about running. So goodbye.