Speaker 1: 0:00

So you're thinking about running but not sure how to take the first step. My name is Brian Patterson and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's Rompod. Welcome back to Brian's Rompod and you'll go to Source for all things running. And can you believe it? We're hurtling towards the end of the year and it seems only just like yesterday when I started this podcast on the first of January.

Speaker 1: 0:45

Now, with Christmas around the corner, the big question is what on earth do I get for that special someone who's passionate about pounding the pavement? Well, fear not, because today we've got the answers you've been looking for. I'm absolutely thrilled to be sitting with a true expert in the field. No pressure, join us today. Tom Long, a familiar face for those in the running community around Teddington. Tom works up at the fantastic up and running store and he's here to guide us through the maze of the Christmas gift options at every price point. So whether you're on a budget or looking to splurge out on that perfect gift, tom's got their inside scoop. So get ready for some fantastic insights, recommendations and maybe some surprises along the way. So, without further ado, let's dive into this festive episode and find out what's on the wish list for the runners this Christmas. So, tom, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:45

Oh, brilliant, I'm on now. Well, thank you very much for having me, Brian, it's an absolute pleasure.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Now sort of texting you earlier. You've kind of got a weird route into running, as it were, your row.

Speaker 2: 1:57

Yes, yes yes, that's not exactly what you call like an orthodox route. Yeah, yeah. So my, my main sport for I guess eight years was was right, I was a little bit lighter than the other rowers so I did do running as like part of the training, but yeah, rode at school for. I guess, five years, like five to six years, I guess, and then uni up in Newcastle for another like two or three years.

Speaker 1: 2:18

Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:18

Yeah, and it involved a lot of, a lot of kind of aerobic fitness stuff but also, I'd say, a bit more strength in relation, like compared to running With me. The reason I kind of took up running fully was because I got quite ill, like towards the end of my rowing career, so unfortunately couldn't continue that. But it was basically like a, you know, overtraining, glandular fever, one whole unholy amalgamation of everything going wrong, and so I had to take kind of four years out of everything. But then running was quite a good way of kind of introducing it back in. Like with the there was a chronic fatigue clinic up in Newcastle, so a very convenient commute for someone afflicted by. But no, so I, you know, worked a lot with them and they said look, you know, basically if you do want to get better, you have to slowly like build up any kind of you know exercise along with a lot of other stuff. I mean, there's no guarantee you will get better, but it's just a matter of like dealing with the symptoms until maybe you do. It feels a bit like headbutting a wall and hoping it will fall down, but eventually it does sometimes happen. For me I was lucky enough that it did and the way I kind of you know increased exercise was through initially just doing like a couch to 5k and so it's much, much more accessible than something like rowing where you know you want to go to a gym or you have to have a boat club or something you have to have friends and stuff to row with always a problem. But yeah, so it's. It's like I went through the entire route basically, although I'd done a lot of running before, I had to start from baseline, so went through the whole couch to 5k process built up, did a whole kind of training cycle started running around the same time as I joined the shop. So quite a sharp learning curve, talking about aspects of a sport that I'd never really like fully committed to. But it was nice. It's very fun learning about kind of the different aspects of training.

Speaker 2: 3:59

The training programs that I'd done before were usually quite high intensity, like with rowing. You can get away with it because it's not necessarily like high impact sport, more and more like countries and squads are going to more of again like the whole 80-20 rule 80 kind of easy, 20 intense training, like that's now in the literature, kind of a pretty, pretty like sound methodology for kind of endurance training. But you know, back when I was training, the two training programs I had were both really high intensity. So for me being told by the other guys in the shop, yeah, 80% of your miles have to be quite easy was was revolutionary to me. I was like I finished a run and I don't hurt, like it's incredible.

Speaker 2: 4:36

So not only did I learn a new method of training, but I was kind of, you know, learning, learning really kind of the process of, you know, getting into a new sport Starting from. You know I was an athlete back in the day. I'd do around 20 hours of training a week for rowing, like 14 to 15 sessions a week, but, you know, starting from pretty much baseline and then just kind of carrying it on up. So, yeah, like the catch 5k, I recommend that to anyone getting into running with me, personally, it was a matter of doing enough exercise that I could, you know, get my body used to, kind of you know that, that slightly higher level of inflammation and stuff, yeah, but with me the problem was that anything would really shoot that inflammation through the roof. And so it used to be.

Speaker 2: 5:17

You know, at this point, maybe three years ago, when I still had it climbing upstairs would cause me doms for like a week or something, but yeah, but now obviously you have to. You know, slowly, over years and years you kind of build up the tolerance again and now I can train you know quite considerably, which is nice, but yeah. So the catch 5k in itself is it's basically has that kind of you know, injury prevention and, in my case, like regression kind of proof built into it where you know there's a lot of, there's a lot of what you know walking involved, because you have to, you know temper how much you run in each session, gives you intervals, and then it says you know you only really do two or three of these sessions a week.

Speaker 2: 5:54

So it's good not only for me but for the general person.

Speaker 2: 5:57

Even if you don't have, like an illness or something like that, it prevents injury and like, alongside that, you know you see people come in and do gait analysis in the shop Mainly it's important for people getting into running because they're at their most vulnerable point.

Speaker 2: 6:10

At that point you know they need to have the correct support, have the correct mindset, being a bit more kind of you know, relaxed, kind of moving into it, not too stressed, and yeah, then you kind of get through the first couple of months of conditioning and without any kind of you know injuries or anything. But yeah, I then went and did like a decent kind of block of training I ended up doing, I guess, from the inception I think I joined in maybe the September of 2020, possibly, and then I did a block of training after I completed the couch 5k, which would have been maybe January. Was it like? No, it wasn't January, I think it was maybe even like February, march, time 21, because I made sure I'd like, took long enough during it, and then that kind of my training peaked in September that year when I did the Great North Run.

Speaker 1: 7:00

So it's nice going back up to Newcastle and stuff especially since I'd had I'd had that spot.

Speaker 2: 7:07

I got through the ballot in my first year of uni. I'd always been too ill or injured to actually do it. So five years later it was it was quite nice, so I did that. I was very pleased with it. I got almost sub 75 on that, so that was cool. It's just 75.08. I was kind of.

Speaker 1: 7:22

I got the end.

Speaker 2: 7:23

I wasn't really gutted because I left everything out there, but I kind of after they've only had fallen down that hill at the end a little bit quicker or something, but no, it was great course, it's interesting that you were well, okay, pretty much an athlete at one stage.

Speaker 1: 7:39

Yes, but you didn't think it wasn't well, I don't know for one to have a better way for a as a pudding. It wasn't beneath you to actually go back to basics, to do something like a couch, like a you know people would normally be, you know, if they're introducing themselves into running, they use that as a program quote, unquote, program sort of thing.

Speaker 2: 8:02

But you knew as a semi.

Speaker 1: 8:04

You know, athlete, you decided it as a way of getting back into it.

Speaker 2: 8:10

Yeah, definitely Like it's. It's as all these things are, like all these training programs. It's all about kind of you know, tools and toolbox just helping you achieve whatever you want to do. In this case, like it was, it was the perfect thing for me. And I know people who, have, you know, tried to get into running. From doing hours and hours in the gym strength work, they want to become more of a hybrid athlete. They have the same problem. I mean, they used to doing hours and hours of training a week, so I would consider them an athlete as well. But you know, starting running is is you know again, it's. It's not a scary thing if you do it correctly.

Speaker 2: 8:40

It's just some people can pick up injuries they have, you know, envisage it like you know visions of their knees suddenly hurting, and this not only takes the stress out of it but also, you know or not, insures but definitely kind of sets you up for a smooth transition into something like running. So, you know, I'd fully recommend even if someone is coming from another sport or like more of a kind of strength background it's, it's, and it goes past pretty quickly really. I mean, with me it took maybe three months or so because I was really nursing it. I think most of these programs, depending which one you go with I think I did that the NHS one you probably get done in like two months or less really. But but yeah, no, definitely you fully recommend it for people kind of coming into it.

Speaker 1: 9:19

So, moving along in terms of Up and running, yeah, I mean, what can you tell me about, you know, shopping? Yeah, up and running.

Speaker 2: 9:28

I mean I mean, yes, it's been what's the kind of like he's been going for 30 years now.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:34

Dan Swift Fallon and his partner Jillian. They want to keep it like a. They want to keep it a specialist company. They, you know they don't want to reduce it to anything where we just kind of bulk by selling shoes or anything like that. They have never I mean, a lot of companies don't but they're very adamant and not charging for any of the specialist information we give away the gate analysis, anything like that. Like all that stuff is useful but they kind of see that as a baseline right, like as we are running specialist.

Speaker 2: 10:05

Yes, we serve shoes to people who might just kind of, you know, walk around. Like we have a lot of NHS workers who come in. They're on their feet 10 hours a day. They've been recommended by, you know, podiatrist to wear something softer. There are those customers that running shoes do work for non running purposes. But vast majority of our customers come in and you know they come here because they want to know exactly the right shoe to help them.

Speaker 2: 10:27

I mean, there's, there are lots of shops out there that you walk in. You'll be approached, you know you approach the wall of kind of, you know, just loads and loads of shoes. Oftentimes the people there they don't really approach you or you have to go up and say, oh, can I try this, this and this, and they just bring the shoes out with no extra information. Right, well, with us, we all I mean you know, in the ground scheme of things, I am the one who runs like the least here. The rest of the staff here you have, I mean in the ground. I say you know, again, in the ground scheme of things. But yeah, in reference to the rest of the company, this is probably, I guess, a little bit more sporty of a shop in terms of staff. But you know, we have people like Matt out there has done, you know, a 1430 or sub 1435K. We've got Alex Dunbar, the manager. He's done a sub 3010K on the track. Mo Hashi, who's you know marathon runner Faintings, out in Kenya.

Speaker 1: 11:20

Yes, exactly so he's doing?

Speaker 2: 11:22

was it Valencia at the weekends? Yeah, so literally tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 11:26

Oh right.

Speaker 2: 11:27

Good luck to him. I mean it'll probably be out after he runs it, but I hope you did well. Yeah, he's done a 224. We have Emma Bond, you know she did London 252, I believe was. So yeah, it's again like we hire people who are passionate about running. It's not just another shop trying to sell shoes.

Speaker 1: 11:45

You shouldn't feel sorry. Sorry, but people shouldn't feel intimidated, intimidated Exactly. Is there to provide you expert? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 11:56

I mean, we've all kind of been in the position of not, you know, being good at not necessarily running, but loads of things right. We can all empathize with, you know, going into a shop or what you know an area of expertise and not knowing much. So not only as people we can usually communicate, you know the little steps up to whatever you want to achieve. But you know, we've all started off running at certain points with me. Obviously it happened to be, you know, relatively recent compared to everyone else, but it does mean that if you have any more complex questions, and even if it's questions that initially seem quite simple, a lot of us either have A degree in a physiology background not me but, like some of the others, do all have been in the sport long enough that they know what physios have told them and stuff like that that we can actually answer some of the more complicated questions.

Speaker 2: 12:43

I mean, stuff like shin splints comes up a lot and people usually say, okay, well, that's just impact and stuff like that. It can be like a matter of replacing a shoe, but it can also be a matter of support, where you know you're kind of you're over-prenading too much and the tib post along the inside of the shin is being overstressed and it becomes more of a tendonitis issue and there's little things like that which you know. Again, it's just a matter of going to a physio and a half or doing a degree related to the sport. But if you go to a shop that you know has people who don't really run or anything like that, they would just maybe sell you a more expensive trainer you know, just something a little bit more cushioned, right.

Speaker 1: 13:20

So you're giving people a little bit of guidance, though you're not, you know, in terms of would it be products?

Speaker 2: 13:26

Yeah, and it's one of those things where we can have the range of customers we work better with, you know, a wider range of customers we can talk to people who are just getting into running. Like I said, it's important to kind of you know, limit mileage and stuff you know again, get the right parachutes. Earlier on is usually best.

Speaker 2: 13:43

Yeah, problem a lot of people run into is because, I mean, with any new thing, you don't necessarily know you'll like it. You don't want to spend a lot on a pair of shoes initially, and that's just a very human thing to do. If I start off cycling, I'm not going to get a 10 grand road bike initially. True, true, yeah, but the important thing with running is that it's very, very intensive on the joints especially. I imagine most of your viewers are listening in a built up area. They might have a parking nearby, but they're going to have to run to and from there. So, yeah, it's very important to have enough cushion there. And so if you start running in your lifestyle shoes, you might get a little bit, you know, a little way into it, but you could start hurting quite quickly and then that builds a kind of you know, caution or hatred of running that you wouldn't necessarily have if you bought the equipment early on. So, end of day, running is quite a cheap sport, you know. You just need the shoes. I mean, it's other stuff is nice baseline, baseline shoes, you know. And then that's it. You're in for another 500 miles. But you know, with the experience here, you know, like I said, we've got some very, very good runners in the house. We can then talk to people who want to elevate that, if they want to get into speed training and use some of you know what in my head I've referred to as the fun shoes, right, yeah, the plates and stuff Again, not for everyone.

Speaker 2: 14:56

It's important that you don't necessarily go straight into that and in another shop you, if you came in and asked for kind of you know, an Adios Pro 3 or something, the person you know it's 220-degree shoe might just put it through the till for you Even though it'll injure you 10K down the line. But with us we have what we referred to in the trade as a conscience. So you know it's not necessarily. You know we wouldn't necessarily put that through. It'd be like are you sure you want to use that for your couch to 5K or something? So yeah, it's. I think you know I value the team not only as a lot of experience going on, you know, in the background, but it means that we can really effectively, you know, talk to people on many different levels in kind of the running journey, which is nice. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:39

And obviously I suppose it's good for the shop. It would be. You want people sort of like coming back because obviously if you are giving the right advice and you don't want to be giving the wrong advice they're going to say well, I had a bad experience there.

Speaker 2: 15:54

And then it's difficult to sell some of the repeat pair of shoes if they quit running because you've given them the wrong pair as well.

Speaker 1: 15:59

Yeah, no 100%, and I think that's quite important because I know I've well. I bought some shoes from here as well. But I know as a general thing, wherever you are, because general listeners are around the world, but it's good to maybe, if you are, if you do trust a specialist running shop and it means that those running shoes on, like you say, maybe 300, maybe 300K or something like that, you maybe learn to replace it or something.

Speaker 2: 16:29

I mean, yeah, as a rough estimate, 800K, maybe something like 500 miles 800K, but speed shoes a little bit less, that kind of thing. It depends where you're running.

Speaker 1: 16:37

You are going to want to, you know, be coming back to the same place. If they've given you a good shoe and then you're kind of injury free, whether as if you give me something like that yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:49

So I'd say, if I had to sum it up, I mean that's kind of the ethos of up and running. It's like, well, you know, we're not just offering the products, we're also offering the experience. And although you know this shop in particular has quite a high, you know, experience of running, in total we have some, like I said, really top athletes. All the other shops have, you know, a similar level. I mean they're all runners, at least you know they all run frequently in their spare time. They have a passion for the products that we sell. You know, I mean the products that we do sell we do use. So it's a matter of we don't only know, you know the drop of each shoe, or you know the cushion, what cushion, you know brand is in each thing, what foam, but you know we also know actually how that translates to feel. So that, I think, is quite important.

Speaker 1: 17:35

Yeah, yeah, great Onto the Christmas gift ideas.

Speaker 2: 17:40

Yes.

Speaker 1: 17:43

So do you get people sort of coming in and saying, oh, you know my son or you know my boyfriend or girlfriend, or however, they're into the running or they get into the running. I want to get something which is kind of all as a stocking filler Sort of like, below 15 pounds. What do we recommend?

Speaker 2: 18:03

Yeah, I mean we've not a lot of that, lot of that. I mean that's that's, yeah, probably one of the most common questions like this this time of year. To be fair, that's possibly, yeah. I mean it's one of the easier ones really, because when you get up to the higher price range is clothing and shoes. It's kind of size dependent on all those things you know, socks or, yeah, a classic Christmas staple. So as long as you know the rough shoe size, that's obviously quite good because they work in bands but no socks, they are good. I mean that's probably the second most important kind of piece of equipment to run on my own Shoes first, socks second. That prevents the smaller things like blisters that again can kind of take the love out of running, can you know, prevent you from running.

Speaker 2: 18:40

That's good. Other things I mean, like water bottles, I find a nice, either the ones that you carry on your person or you know ones that a lot of runners they. They have to do strength work in the gym. I do strength work in the gym. A lot of us do just anything to have around. I mean, I again I have an SIS what bowl. I'm rarely seen without it, which you know at the pub. It looks a bit weird sometimes when I'm sipping on it, but you know, just just a science and sports, the brand, but yeah okay, yeah, just just like a kind of less disposable water bottle.

Speaker 2: 19:09

So yeah, just just reusable water bowl. But yeah, I mean, yeah, who's laughing, I'm nice and hydrated in the pub so I can bounce out with alcohol on music. But no, I mean that that's important either if you want to carry it or kind of you know, just have it alongside for either recovery or any strength sessions in the gym you're using Leads nicely. Onto kind of nutrition. Again, it's stuff like hydration tablets, gels, it's. You know, if you know the person's kind of preference on flavor or brand, first, that's nice. But even if you buy them a brand that they don't necessarily know, it can kind of they might discover something and it's not gonna completely waste a lot of money right with gels and stuff. And maybe you're longer distance endurance athletes, marathons and stuff. It's about finding something that you know works with your stomach nicely and people have a preference in gel thickness or density and stuff like that. So, and flavors of course. But but yeah, anything like that's good. Let's see what else I did briefly write a list.

Speaker 1: 20:05

Oh, okay, see if I can find this you know, here's what I've prepared earlier On the sock side.

Speaker 2: 20:10

I mean.

Speaker 1: 20:10

I know, whenever I bought socks before they, they tend to be sort of kind of kind of kind of. Are they quite specialized? Or something like. That depends. Yeah, I know, if I send some fans some socks which were quite expensive and you know others which you know, you can either just get the yeah more garden you know.

Speaker 2: 20:27

So there are ones. I mean they're a compression socks. I wrote that down for a kind of higher price bracket because they are a little bit more special, still a bit more expensive. Most, most running socks will last longer than your regular socks.

Speaker 2: 20:38

So I mean if you go and buy like a bulk, bulk pack of Puma socks from SportsDirect, I mean you know they may be good for your strength sessions, for running, when they're a bit you know, being used a bit more intensive or you know it's a bit more important, they don't bunch up in certain areas. A proper running sock is brilliant. It's unbeatable, it's nice and elasticized. There's no points where it bunches up, you know. Mainly it's just how the material binds the foot nicely. Yeah they're a bit more breathable breathable.

Speaker 2: 21:04

There are different kinds. You can get thinner ones. Some people prefer that. You can get thicker ones with more cushion. I mean, usually if people come in and they say I'm not really sure the person's preference, you can't go wrong with just like a medium weight one. That's why the average is there. It does work for most people. But yeah, and there's different lengths and stuff, obviously trainer cut. You know, some people like to go for the really minimalistic ones down here. Well, you know quarter length or something.

Speaker 1: 21:26

Yeah, just to show the ankle.

Speaker 2: 21:27

Exactly, yeah, so people have their own preference. I mean quarter length again, nice medium one, that's the one I would kind of go to first. I mean, you know, crew length all the way up a little bit. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily go with that. But yeah, I caught a length.

Speaker 2: 21:40

Sock is pretty much what you need and you have a range of sizes, right, so usually small, medium, large, extra large. So if you roughly know that person's shoe size, that's fine With shoes. Sometimes they can size up a little bit differently. I also put gloves on this list because it's getting old.

Speaker 1: 21:54

Great, you know they aren't very good. Yeah, depends. Sometimes they're above 15. Especially, yeah, a time of recording is quite old.

Speaker 2: 22:03

Yes, I know Last couple of days have been brutal.

Speaker 1: 22:05

They've been quite brutal and especially you know you want again. You, like you said, someone has a kind of a sweat proof and they're breathable.

Speaker 2: 22:12

Yes, yeah, and like I said, they can get a little bit higher in price. I mean Sealskin ones. If you want full waterproof ones or at least what resistant ones, you can go for like 30 or quid. But Ron Hill classic gloves they're kind of referred to as that. You know, 15 quid just keeps like a layer of heat on your hands. It really does help.

Speaker 1: 22:30

So that's kind of the budget side. So if we're looking sort of mid-level, what I mean I already mentioned the compression socks and stuff.

Speaker 2: 22:38

Yeah, they're interesting, they might be. Yeah, it's a little bit more spacious, not in kind of price, not just in price but also fitting. So that might require the person to go in and try them first, because oftentimes they rely on not only like a range of foot sizes but also kind of like a calf width and stuff or diameter. They can aid recovery and stuff. So if you wear them after a session they've been shown to kind of help recovery. Some people like to use them when running as well, so actually to kind of reduce injury rate.

Speaker 2: 23:07

Anyway, the lower leg is, you know, there isn't all that much material there in the ground scheme of things, all the force has to go through at some point. So that's pretty much along with the knee like the prime spot where you'll see kind of injuries in runners. So yeah, some people swear by them. I have a couple of pairs. I usually use them for like recovery, but they'll usually be around like 40 quid. Some other stuff let's see what else I've got Head torches that's a good one especially this time of year.

Speaker 2: 23:33

Yeah, again, there's kind of a range of them. Sometimes the really special ones will be like above 60 quid. But you know, silver's a good brand. I've got Nog KNOGG. That's a good brand as well, it's, some of them are a little bit more budget, which is nice.

Speaker 1: 23:51

So this would just fit on the head.

Speaker 2: 23:53

Yeah, usually is a headband-esque thing, but you can get ones that act a bit like a chest rig or something. If someone's not a fan of using it on the head, it can sometimes. It depends really. I mean, some people have a problem with pressure points on the head, but for the most part they're pretty well cushioned nowadays, these, and they're pretty light as well. So the ones that go on the head. So it's not like that's kind of massively an issue, I would say.

Speaker 2: 24:14

But yeah, that's a good season to look into, along with clothing leggings important. Long sleeves important now, definitely so, although running, like I said earlier, the minimum is the shoes. It's nice not also to get hyperthermia at the same time, so it's a little bit difficult to use the shoes if you're shivering on the floor. But no, like Benekit is always nice. Yeah, exactly so. Visibility stuff. So I've got high visibility vests and clothing. Yeah, they've been proving very popular. You can either get the clothing itself, like Ron Hilda, a good line in visibility stuff, but also just the vest on its own if you already have long sleeves or if you think personally, how long sleeves it's always good to add something on top. Oftentimes, a lot of these will literally just be black and that's quite possibly the worst thing to be running around in at night. But yeah, so that's always good.

Speaker 2: 25:06

I wrote here as well. I mean, I kind of mentioned again earlier like Sears can do these gloves, waterproof gloves. They do waterproof socks and stuff too. So if you know someone who's into trail running and either doesn't have gothic shoes or doesn't want gothic shoes, that's a whole separate thing in itself. But some people would prefer to have regular shoes just because they're less seasonal, specific right, or less season specific. You know they're a little less breathable gothic shoes. So some people, if they want a shoe they can use all your round, just get normal ones. When it becomes winter you get some kind of Sears can socks and waterproof socks. They'll price you around, you know, 30, 35 quid. So it's in this bracket, but you know it's still under. There's a lot of socks on this list, but yeah it's part of the theme of Christmas.

Speaker 2: 25:47

Right, but no, that's a good, you know more expensive thing. As a side note as well, we used to wear them rowing as well, because they're submersible. So if you have to wade in with the boat, a lot of them have these kind of these, these band around the top. So not only is the sock itself fully waterproof, but you can actually put your foot in under the water and then get in the boat.

Speaker 2: 26:06

You don't have to worry about it, but a bit of a side note there. But they are good. They're good products, and so for this kind of you like time of year as well, it's bang on.