Brian: 0:00

So you're thinking about running but not sure how to take the first step. My name is Brian Patterson and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's Rompod. Well, welcome back to brian's run pod, and we've got a really special episode lined up for you. We are diving deep into the world of sports massage intervention recovery, and we've got two incredible guests joining us from St Margaret's Physio.

Brian: 0:49

So first up we have Molly, a dedicated sports massage specialist. Molly's approach is all about understanding the mechanics of the body. She believes in the power of massage therapy to not just improve recovery but to help you let go of everyday muscle tension, something every runner should use right. And alongside Molly, we're joined by Paula, an experienced physiotherapist specialising in sports injuries. Paula brings a no-fluff approach to her work and she's got a passion for precision, as she puts it. I get straight to the point and teach you exactly what you need to start improving immediately. So if you're looking for actionable advice that cuts through the noise, pull as you go to, whether you're preparing for your next marathon, just getting started or simply trying to stay injury free, today's episode is packed with expert insights and you won't want to miss. So grab your headphones, lace up your running shoes and let's dive into it. Hello.

Molly: 1:49

Welcome. Thank you for having us.

Brian: 1:52

Great, great, great. So I thought that was quite an introduction for you both.

Paula: 1:57

So anyway, how are you today? Yes, very well, thank you. How about yourself?

Brian: 2:02

I'm fine. I'm fine, as I do with most of my guests. I kind of start right at the beginning as to how you got into this, or rather, what was your experience of physical exercise when you got into it. So, Paula, I'll start with you first.

Molly: 2:18

Yeah, no problem.

Brian: 2:19

So I understand from your accent you're not from this country, is that correct?

Paula: 2:24

No, I moved to UK in 2013, so a bit a while back. But sport has always been in my life, so I grew up in a quite sporty family. So my dad was a strongman and my brother was an ice hockey player. Oh, right yeah so I didn't have to play the role of the active child or sporty child. So I would say I probably was a late bloomer when it comes to exercise and kind of competition. However, I did probably do most of the after school clubs.

Paula: 2:56

You can imagine school time and like swimming, basketball and all of that, so it was more like a social thing rather than yeah, you know more than that. Yeah, but yeah. Then eventually, when I moved to London in 2013, I joined the gym and actually I found weightlifting very grounding, therapeutic kind of experience, and I just fell in love with it. So since then I kind of have been training on my own and then I started university here in St Mary's University in Twickenham.

Brian: 3:29

Oh, great Okay.

Molly: 3:30

Yeah, and that's when I found rowing and I joined rowing club and that kind of. That's what I say. I'm a late bloomer because only then I discovered I'm competitive and I enjoy sports at a completely different level.

Brian: 3:46

And yourself, Molly.

Paula: 3:47

Yeah, so from a very young age I used to do quite a bit of swimming, so lots of competitions. I did like distance swimming as well for like charity events, and then growing up with two older brothers who were rugby football, I think it was like for me to have to be right sport as well. So swimming, and then just from a young age similar toolo a lot of sort of after-school clubs, so doing more football, rugby, netball, everything, and then just kind of eventually found my groove into kind of more netball at secondary school and then just sort of from there really just sort of developed into kind of going to running clubs and then joining the gym and sort of doing some weights and things like that.

Brian: 4:25

So all right, okay, so sort of activity and exercise was pretty much in both your lives, or quite an active part of your lives.

Paula: 4:35

Yeah, yeah absolutely so.

Brian: 4:37

What did your poor look? I just go to you, is that basically, what did your father think that you kind of came into it at a late, you know, after coming into coming to this country? Yeah, I mean, what did he father think that you kind of came into it at a late, you know, after coming into coming to this country? Yeah I mean, what did he think? Because obviously his he was like you said, he he done the weightlifting and was like a, a strong man, and yeah, well, he definitely what I think was he surprised or?

Molly: 4:59

no, I think he just like you know, because we, me and my brother, we both were quite sporty yeah, in the sense like I wasn't competing or like striving to be a you know, a specific athlete, but I think that was just a part of normal thing, what we would do. So it wasn't a surprise, but it was more like oh great, you're doing this like just a general interest.

Paula: 5:23

And Molly, were your parents quite sporty, yes yeah, on my dad's side very much a lot of football, very much so. So him and my granddad and my dad's brother, they all did football from a very, very young age. So, yeah, quite sporty on that side.

Brian: 5:37

So definitely all right. So you so. Was it because you found sport, both of you? Was it the fact that you kind of thought, maybe I could make a career from this?

Molly: 5:51

For me it was, I think, by the time, yes, when I moved to UK I kind of basically, initially I did marketing and economics, and then I moved here. I was like I really want to do something else, but I don't know what. And then I took a year out and in that time I fell in love with fitness and I was like, oh, I really want to, you know, do something. And at the time I thought maybe personal training would be the path, but I wanted to have that university experience. So Training would be the path, but I wanted to have that university experience.

Molly: 6:19

So then I went and did Santiago de Camino the walk. I got injured while I was in the during the walk and that's actually where I met this lady, french, french doctor lady, and she did some manipulation on my foot and then helped me to like explain like what's going on and just gave some general advice, like you know what to do in that evening and for the rest of the trip. And I was like, oh, this is good, I like that. And I thought, you know what, let me have a look at what I need to do to be a physiotherapist. And that's kind of where I decided that I want to be a physiotherapist.

Brian: 6:53

I have heard that from another guest on the podcast. He basically when they either got injured or something like that and then they found that, oh, that's interesting. You know, maybe I could get into this. I mean so, molly? I mean how you know what was that lightning bolt? So my path is slightly different.

Paula: 7:14

So I'm actually from a beauty therapy background initially, so I studied that at college from 16, 17.

Paula: 7:21

And then you only cover so much massage to a degree, and then I worked in spas for a very long time and then salons, and then from there I sort of digressed into that. Massage was kind of the groove I wanted to take and that was most like the most you know enjoyment for me to take and that was most like the most you know enjoyment for me. And then, yeah, about a year and a half ago I took the leap and thought I'm sports massage is something that I would love to go down.

Paula: 7:43

So took the leap and studied in St Mary's University as well, and then qualified in sports massage.

Brian: 7:49

So yeah, I know, today we're going to be covering physiotherapy and, obviously, sports massage, so but I thought I'd like to focus in on Molly yes, no.

Paula: 7:58

First of all, yeah, um.

Brian: 8:00

So now I know it's something that a lot of runners you know hear about, but they don't know the full benefits. Can you kind of break it down for us? As to what are the benefits to runners yep.

Paula: 8:12

So with sports massage it's kind of like a specialized form of massage, so it's to help anyone really.

Paula: 8:18

So it can be every day-to-day person or also athletic people, so runners, etc. So what it's sort of doing is it's sort of recommending people to come in, have a try and sort of us to assess how the body's feeling and if they're noticing any sort of aches and pains themselves, so we can have that assessment to see what part of the body is sort of causing them discomfort or if there's anything that's sort of preventing them from maximizing their sort of true sort of potential in a run. So we would sort of go across that and we're kind of focusing on preventing injuries sort of before it gets to that point where they're then having to reverse back, yeah, and then also from that obviously approving the athletic performance but also reducing tension and to work on muscle elasticity yeah so we're kind of working on that as a whole to basically optimize as much as we can to improve the body's performance and the running performance because I know even casual runners are very guilty, and me.

Brian: 9:16

I do stand charged that we don't stretch, and so therefore, and also because running is very much compounding on the muscles, yeah, using quite a lot of muscles as well. Yes, you know you don't give yourself time. You know to allow for the elasticity, know to to allow for that elasticity. So is that, is that what you find that you know from your skill set? That where?

Paula: 9:43

you give the benefits of so, absolutely so a lot of aftercare advice or even prior to treating people we have the conversation of are you warming up, are you warming down? 99 of people turn around and say I do, sometimes probably not as much as I should be, but it's sometimes for a lot of people time they just find, oh it, as much as I should be.

Paula: 9:57

But it's sometimes for a lot of people time they just find oh, it's just a boring thing to do. So it's trying to educate people on how to potentially add in those elements to kind of make it a bit more interesting, because you know, stretching can be a little bit boring, but we're trying to educate to make it a little bit more fun. So adding it to their routine is maybe get out for a 10 minute speed walk first, do some stretches and then get into your running or sort of afterwards kind of, as you're coming into your cool down, sort of just kind of add those stretches in, just so you're not then waking up the next couple of days later feeling extra achy and extra sore and putting you off running together for some people.

Brian: 10:35

So yeah, so would, let's say, for a runner. Is it something that people would come to you because of they've got injured, or is it something that maybe they've been recommended that it would help improve performance? What's kind of that balance?

Paula: 10:52

when I would say, yeah, a bit of both, if it was kind of going along the injury side. If they have noticed they've had injuries in the past, it kind of sort of balances out between myself and paula. We might sort of need a bit of sports massage and or physio, but a lot of people, if it's just starting out, it's also quite a good way for them to get advice from us to prevent sort of injuries, so that we're getting to that point to nip it in the bud before we're reversing back to from an injury to get better. So, however, if someone does come to the clinic with an injury, we can have that conversation to sort of explain how they've got to that point, what they're doing, if they're warming up or if they're not yeah and so that we can then, once they're on the bed and we're treating, we know exactly kind of the areas we need to treat and the specialized techniques for it as well and would you concentrate?

Brian: 11:42

I know this is a bit of an obvious question. Okay, would you just concentrate on the lower limbs, or you could not?

Paula: 11:47

necessarily so. It can be just the lower limbs. However, some people might find that if they are a little bit more of arm users as well, they can get shoulder aches and pains, even just joints around the arms as well. So, although predominantly you'd maybe think sort of hamstrings, quads, it can also kind of build up to an upper body issue as well, depending on their posture, as they're running as well, and if they're sort of using their feet to kind of correctly hit the ground, if they're going heel, toe or are they kind of using it a bit differently, and also dependent on the sort of surface they're running on. Are they running on grass, are they running on the pavement, are they on a treadmill? So it can also differentiate from that as well all right, okay, and would they?

Brian: 12:32

you know, let's say, if I came to you and then suddenly you know, I'm saying you know, I always keep getting this kind of hip injury, or you know, I get, I get very tight. Well, me, I get very tight hips only because I have a job, whereas I'm sitting down all the time at the desk and I would you recommend, let's say kind of like a course of treatments, or could they just come for you for one or two times, you know, maybe three or four times over the year, or something like that.

Paula: 12:59

So I guess it differs from person to person. So after that first session we'd get a better idea of how frequently we recommend you to visit. If it was someone who was training for a race or a marathon, we'd probably try and get them in that little bit sort of sooner. We'd probably try and get them in that little bit sort of sooner, so maybe a couple of months before race day, just that we can sort of work on a frequent maintenance treatment before they build up to that point so that the muscles are ready to go and activated, ready for the race. If it was sort of general day-to-day like someone for yourself, for example, again we'd sort of assess from session one.

Paula: 13:34

Generally we can recommend anywhere from the first session to maybe come back as maybe two weeks time, just because we've had a feel of the muscles, we know where the tension sits. It can also adjust from that from anywhere between four and six weeks as well. So we try and keep it as a routine check so that it's not sometimes I like to explain it as a bit of a scrunched up towel. You know you sort of if you picture a towel, sort of scrunched up towel. You know you sort of if you picture a towel sort of scrunched up, we're trying to loosen it up to get a little bit of a spongy texture. So rather than reverting it back to being twisted and tight, we want to kind of keep it at a maintenance level. So coming in frequently, maybe once every four to six weeks, would be a good way to keep on top of it.

Paula: 14:12

Right see them more than not, just so that we can get an idea of how they're, what they're achieving, if they're achieving the results they want from the sessions as well, but we do offer course treatments as well, so they can you know, buy a package and then that might cover for however many treatments and so on yeah, so it's not just about your, your you're treating the injury, but also it's about maintaining it, you know, over a course of yeah, absolutely, and sort of building that relationship with the clients that you're, you know you're having that conversation at the end, are they feeling like they're achieving what they want to achieve from the treatment, or do they feel, yeah, that's great. However, next time maybe, you know, we could work on this for a bit longer, or it's just sort of getting that relationship together to sort of work together really to get the results you want.

Paula: 15:12

Yeah, now the other thing is a bit of a contentious issue but I don't like pain.

Brian: 15:14

Okay, which may be not many people do. Yeah, exactly so is it. Is it going to hurt? Is that I mean?

Paula: 15:19

so I like to come with an approach that a lot of people associate sports massage with pain.

Paula: 15:26

So I know for myself and I believe paola is the same we like to treat it as not for the whole hour or the 45 minutes has to be painful because you're not always going to gain the results you need from that. So, yes, some areas, I like to say, might be more uncomfortable just because you might be doing trigger points and sort of compressions into a certain specific muscle group which, yes, can be uncomfortable. But that's to get that release of tension out of that isolated area. But the whole body doesn't have to be an hour of pain or 45 minutes of pain because it doesn't need it always. So you know, if someone comes to me and says, well, I want a full body massage, you know my shoulders are generally the tightest area I'm not going to sort of go ham into the calves if the calves don't need it. Some people do like that kind of balance of pressure and a bit of uncomfortableness, but maybe a bit of a relaxation as well, which can be quite beneficial at the end of a massage.

Brian: 16:20

I understand it that over time it won't become as painful.

Paula: 16:24

Yeah, absolutely. Your muscle memory gets used to a certain pressure and you as a person can build up a bit of a tolerance the more you come along for a massage, really. So obviously it differs from person to person, but generally 90% of people start to feel they can take a little bit more pressure as time goes on, or we don't necessarily have to apply the pressure.

Brian: 16:46

So right, right. So have there been any, or, and with that, have there been any sort of success stories for you that you can sort of recount?

Paula: 16:56

I would say so. So, just being that I've only been here for coming up to four months now, I'm sort of building up that client base with new clients or even sort of already existing clients and just building that relationship to be able to get them booked back in and also just getting a better understanding of working in a clinic life as well. So sort of quite a success for me to be able to build up that confidence to well, just have discussions with new people, learn new things as I go. You're always learning on the job as well. Sometimes you know you, always you don't know who's going to come through the door, sometimes with what injury or every day is going to be different absolutely and everybody's going to be different.

Paula: 17:35

So it's, I think, just day to day, when you've completed a day of work and you feel you've helped someone, it's quite a nice successful feeling, I would say good, good boost yes, yeah, when you've you know someone's come in feeling a bit not so great and they leave feeling better, makes you feel like you've done a fairly good job, I would say yeah but in terms of I mean people who may be, I don't know if you've had people who've kind of were targeting in a particular event, be it the marathon. I mean I know that holly, yes, uh, she was, I think, one of the first clients I done and she she's really into her running actually she does quite a lot of running and quite a long distance.

Paula: 18:12

So for her, her issues at the beginning was that her hamstrings and glutes were really, really tight. So I think her words were the first two sessions were excruciating right and then after that you're really selling it to me but whilst I was checking everything, okay, yeah yeah, I'm fine, just breathe through it.

Paula: 18:34

She then found after session three her running got so much more well, improved a lot, so she felt that the aches that she was getting in the hamstrings and sort of a little bit into the calves and glutes were dispersing from the massage sessions. So she was actually getting optimized results really, and I think she then went on to do a half marathon, which I think she did really well with. So yeah, for her definitely.

Brian: 18:59

I think there was some definite improvements there because I, because I can see that, let's say a support service like you. It's not just about the physical health, but it's also about the mental health as well.

Paula: 19:11

Absolutely yeah, because you've.

Brian: 19:13

If you feel, because it's especially someone who's like you know, your client is regularly running, yeah, and if and it's something that they enjoy and they can't do that because of injury, then it's frustrating for them. Frustrating for them, but it's also, if it can you know, something I've come across just doing the podcast is that basically people find that yeah it also affects them. You know from. You know from a mental health point of view, especially if it's a sport you love doing.

Paula: 19:40

I have another client who, uh, plays a lot of tennis and actually, unfortunately, at the moment she can't, just due to her back being quite sore and legs being quite tight. And you know, every day it's sort of she gets frustrated. She thinks I want to play tennis. However, I know just at the moment it's not quite the right time because I need to just allow the massage to do its job to have a bit of physio and do let that do its job so that she's not going back causing an injury and then starting again.

Paula: 20:05

So for her it's just she's taking a little bit of time to sort of get self a bit better and then hopefully she can go back and play the tennis again.

Brian: 20:13

So do you give any exercises to people that they can do at home?

Paula: 20:17

so it's not just about the session they have here so sometimes not necessarily exercises, although sometimes for certain people, sometimes like your, classic yoga and pilates is is quite a good one to recommend if people want that stretch. But generally what we tend to do is sometimes with the you do a bit of a postural analysis, you can get to grips with where's sort of not quite standing as it should be and for someone like yourself, if you've come in with like hip issues, you can sort of give certain stretches to help towards that. So it's always very good that you kind of have that conversation with the client to say go at the pace that's comfortable for you so you're not overdoing the stretch, because sometimes that's going to then potentially cause more harm than the not. But I like to sort of demonstrate a stretch with my client in the room and get them to repeat it in front of me as like mirror it.

Brian: 21:09

So to a degree.

Paula: 21:10

So I'd sort of demonstrate maybe two to three stretches to yourself to help with a mobility yeah and then get you to repeat that in front of me so I can see that you're, you know, doing as you should, and then they can go home and incorporate that into, potentially, the stretches they're already doing or into their warm up.

Brian: 21:28

Ok, or it's something they can do in front of the telly. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, excellent. Oh, that's brilliant, that's excellent.

Paula: 21:38

No, thank you yeah.

Brian: 21:40

So right, well, well, moving over to you, paula. So so you decided that you wanted to get into physio. What so you're going to embark on? Did you do a degree, or, first of all, um, yeah, so I, I did something.

Molly: 22:01

So basically I applied for physiotherapy yeah and I didn't get in all right, and I was devastated because I was 20, I don't know, four maybe and I was like, oh my god, all my friends are already graduating, like you know, starting a job, and I was like I need to start university now.

Molly: 22:18

So I started looking and then I found sports rehab right undergrad and I did get in and was accepted, which was great, and at the time I kind of I felt a bit devastated, obviously, that I couldn't do physiotherapy first, um, but actually I am so grateful that I ended up doing sports rehab degree and then physiotherapy for my master's I see you went through that way, yeah exactly because the amount I learned during that first chunk of my education, it was just like amazing and I so happy because you just learned so much about human body, all the movement analysis, all the sporty side of physiotherapy.

Molly: 22:56

That was like three years just concentrating on that and, yeah, I, I absolutely love it so was it when you do you feel that?

Brian: 23:05

because I I was a mature student as well. I did business and finance and and and so. But I found that at the time you have a different perspective of education and you feel like you kind of were, you're not just this guy who's you know left school and suddenly you're 18 and you're thrust into the university, whereas at the time, you know, I had more of a like a thirst for knowledge. Was that the same for you, being a mature student?

Molly: 23:34

I would definitely say so. I, I wanted to know everything and you know that annoying student who always picks their hand up. Yeah, I was that person, or be like just coming up with like answers yeah, exactly, do we need the extra? Yeah so if any of my ex-colleagues can be like, yeah, that she was like that person, but yeah, definitely I was more keen, I think, to learn. I mean you, everyone was there to learn, but I knew that I really want to do well and get most out of it.

Brian: 24:07

Yeah, yeah, all right, that's good. So you did the sports therapy first and then Sports rehab yeah, sports rehab, sorry first, and then you went on to sort of do physiotherapy as as a master.

Molly: 24:23

So that was that, just for one year so it's actually two years, it's two years okay so it's 24 continuous months of education, so you don't get like a summer break or anything in between. It's just like you are always there either studying for six weeks or being on a placement. Oh right, but it still counts as under master's. So yeah, master's education.

Brian: 24:45

And do you correct me if I'm wrong, but do you get registered as a physiotherapist at the time? Do you have to do? Is that part of the same thing, while?

Molly: 24:56

studying.

Brian: 24:57

While studying.

Molly: 24:58

You know, let's say, because I know you said you worked at the NHS, in the NHS, or so when you are a student or a master program or undergrad, you are not qualified as a physiotherapist, you are just like a physio student. You have the student qualification and that allows you to go on placements and have that work experience. But, obviously you are not practicing as a physiotherapist.

Brian: 25:20

So once you're qualified as a master, once you're qualified, then practicing as a physiotherapist, yeah so once you qualified, as once you qualified then you, yeah, become a physiotherapist. Yeah, so so do you when. So you didn't immediately work with sports or go into initially, because, like you said, you worked in the nhs. Do you find how different was that compared to what you're doing now, or is?

Molly: 25:41

it quite similar, I mean um. So my choice for going into nhs was because I wanted to learn again all of it, like kind of I wanted to see all of the rotations and like see the worst case scenarios um, and I wasn't necessarily drawn to sport physio per se as like working in a team as well by that time I already knew that the work schedule is not for me, and so on.

Molly: 26:08

In the terms of different, obviously people have much more like comorbidities when they are. When you are in NHS, there's more like people with comorbidities and different issues going on, rather than just yeah, oh my arm hurt or like I injured myself because I was running and things like that. So it's a much more complex environment, which is amazing for learning experience and it definitely gave me that confidence of like to know what is kind of healthy person with a little bit of muscle imbalance and problem versus.

Brian: 26:42

You know more serious cases, so it helps also I can see it probably gives you a broader spectrum 100 in terms of because you're not just dealing with someone who's injured themselves because through running injuries were repetitive running injuries or or whatever. Yeah, then, dealing with someone who is I have have had I don't know broken their arm or I don't know broken their arm or I don't know what it is.

Molly: 27:05

It could be many, many things. It could be anything.

Brian: 27:07

And also maybe you know someone a wide range of ages. It could be someone who is a lot older yeah. What made you decide to start your own practice?

Molly: 27:20

Yeah, good question. I think I always had a little niggle in me to be a business owner yeah or entrepreneur.

Molly: 27:29

So I think that kind of pushed the decision to do it when the opportunity came along for the space. Um, I definitely wouldn't say that it was an easy decision to quit your full-time a job with a secure salary and then just be like let's see what happens. But I I wanted to do it because I like the idea of, like, time freedom for my own schedule. Um, doing the job, yeah, as I do it now, like you know, seeing and helping people with sports related injuries or, or, you know, desk job, work-related strengths and just educating people about movement and how they can be more confident in their bodies when they move.

Molly: 28:10

So it's not just kind of helping someone to. You know, do bare minimum, but they want to do more or do a bit like variety of things and live their best life. So that's kind of like my biggest motivation to help those people.

Brian: 28:26

Yeah, bring the confidence and like the skills, what they need yeah, to get there because you want them to walk out of here. You know a better person, or at least on the mend.

Molly: 28:36

Anyways, yeah, or just often people come in and be like I don't know if I can ever run.

Brian: 28:41

Yes.

Molly: 28:42

Or I don't know if I ever can do this thing.

Brian: 28:45

Yes.

Molly: 28:46

And I was like, who told you that?

Brian: 28:47

Yeah, who told you that?

Molly: 28:54

And then we have to kind of like go backwards and, yeah, kind of like deal with like limiting beliefs, the knowledge itself about their body and building confidence, and then learning the new movement pattern and strengthening yeah. So